Honesty at the table??

[Mikeyboy9361]

Yeah sure I have heard that if they have been mucked in error and can be identified then they can be retrieved,

[WASP]

There is no innocent and guilty here, the guy did not break any rules, so he has nothing to answer for and he is almost certainly unaware of this thread.  That said, he needs to understand what our general expectations are in these situations and he will be informed of that.  Other than that, no witch hunt here please, that"s not our style either.

I totally agree and I think the thread is best off left for now (or locked) as too many people are having too much to say and to be totally honest I"m uncomfortable with some of the baying that is going on in here.

As in Walsall I didn"t see or hear anything that went on (although I did leave the casino early   ) so I cannot comment but I do find it hard to understand people who didn"t witness an incident to pass judgement.

However, in Cardiff I did witness a horrific incident that I quietly PM"d Des about but my big mistake at the time was not getting an APAT organiser to witness it and as Des stated if these incidents occur bring it to their attention real time.

As for the OP - that situation sucks but I guess it will never happen to you again.
As for trash talk - it happens, you want to try sitting on a table with Gosney and Barry Neville.
As for people not being able to handle their beer and becoming violent -Bang out of order and I"m sure they will regret it.
As for the dealers - They were bad but our table was good at watching and helping him (table 9).
As for the pies - Am I the only one who thought they were nice?

[K3vl4rUK]

There is no innocent and guilty here, the guy did not break any rules, so he has nothing to answer for and he is almost certainly unaware of this thread.  That said, he needs to understand what our general expectations are in these situations and he will be informed of that.  Other than that, no witch hunt here please, that"s not our style either.

I totally agree and I think the thread is best off left for now (or locked) as too many people are having too much to say and to be totally honest I"m uncomfortable with some of the baying that is going on in here.

As in Walsall I didn"t see or hear anything that went on (although I did leave the casino early   ) so I cannot comment but I do find it hard to understand people who didn"t witness an incident to pass judgement.

However, in Cardiff I did witness a horrific incident that I quietly PM"d Des about but my big mistake at the time was not getting an APAT organiser to witness it and as Des stated if these incidents occur bring it to their attention real time.

As for the OP - that situation sucks but I guess it will never happen to you again.
As for trash talk - it happens, you want to try sitting on a table with Gosney and Barry Neville.
As for people not being able to handle their beer and becoming violent -Bang out of order and I"m sure they will regret it.
As for the dealers - They were bad but our table was good at watching and helping him (table 9).
As for the pies - Am I the only one who thought they were nice?

lol stomach of steel!

[Roscopiko]

As for the pies - Am I the only one who thought they were nice?

I was neither over or underwhelmed and managed 2 - free food should never be questioned only eaten.

[WYoung83]

i usually make up for not cashing, by taking on the buffet, in these events which have been very good so far.

I grabbed 2 pies, hoping that they were nice steak or chicken pies. I walked to the bar and bit into the first one. A whole load or warm jelly fat ran down my chin, i looked around to check no one was watching, and walked away from my plate leaving it on the bar. hoping no-one saw me, i felt really bad for taking 2 beacuse someone else may have missed out on the experiance.

[Honeybadg]

Yes, it was your KK.  I knew you had at least a medium pair in that spot, but was getting so short I thought why not?  Soon found out why not...

Yes, I thought our first table was good fun.  Disagree about the dealing though from the first dealer - every hand was a mishap as far as I was concerned.  Like I mentioned at the weekend, I play at DTD most weeks and I think I"m spoilt by the quality and consistent standard of the dealers to be honest.  

The second dealer was better, even though he made a serious blunder on your hand when the other player hadn"t noticed your raise from UTG of 2K and then tried to raise himself to 1.5K.  No one was sure if he"d said raise before or after the chips went it - and I think that"s pretty central to what the course of action should have been.  If he said raise before the bet, then he should be made to min-raise to 4K.  If he threw the chips in and then said raise, I think the correct ruling is that he should be made to call. 

However, the dealer compounded the situation by returning the chips to the player and mucking his cards for him.  That was a big mistake imo.  The player has to be aware of action that"s taking place (and this dealer was leaving the chips in front of the players when they bet, so there was no excuse for not noticing your raise).  The dealer shouldn"t just take it upon himself to return the chips and not enforce the action.

When the floor was called over, he made a common sense decision in my book.  The player didn"t much the cards himself, it was the dealer who grabbed them from in front of the player immediately after returning the 1500 chips.  The floor decided to retrieve the players hand from the muck (this is probably not the right thing to do in many people"s minds), and make the player make the call.  From then the hand played out quite well for you !

Be interesting to hear other people"s reading on this situation and the decision.

It was a very irregular hand - Blinds 250/500 - Gareth Clearly raises to 2000.

Other player throws in 1500 chips - and says "1500".

Should stand as a call (and made up to 2000)

A decision(best one in the circumstances) was made and we got on with it.

Flop JT8 - Gareth all in

Called by J7 suited.

Gareth QQ ... which stands up.

Table 7 : Ran well in good spirits - Dealer inexperienced - I thought she did okay - I think the table was helpful to her - no dramas.

If the players aren"t helpful - general case I think the dealing gets worse - so our responsibility to help.

Neither of the tables that I played on had any trash talking - and no place for it within APAT - on a personal level I would just ignore it (or make a mental tape of it to amuse myself) but at the time it spoils the tournament for the rest of the table.

In terms of making APAT officials aware - I think this is the right answer but not always so easy mid tournament - you ask for the TD who makes a ruling - are you then suposed to say I don"t like that ruling can I speak to the APAT guys - tricky.

Louis

[kinboshi]

[Honeybadg]

Yes, I thought the ruling from the floor (it wasn"t the TD, just one of the more competent and experienced dealers called John I think, who therefore wasn"t dealing at that time...) was absolutely right and the decision was accepted by all involved.  I would have also accepted the player"s hand being dead, but it wouldn"t have been right for his chips to be returned in whatever circumstance (imo).

Despite the first dealer, I thoroughly enjoyed playing on both my first and second (and last) tables.  Good banter, no malice or angle-shooting.  Just good honest poker.  Honest poker...bit of an oxymoron me thinks.

General point - I think it should be the TD making that decision.

Angle-shooting - We"ve all been at tournaments when people are shooting angles (sometimes not in the hand) and it is just so grating - and not part of poker for me - whereas the elaborate and well conceived bluff is a beautiful thing and to be celebrated with the ringing of bells.

Perhaps something should go in the briefing with regards to the differences between cash and tournament poker, and also the difference between online and face to face. Some people will be crossing both those bridges at once.

[Claw75]

I remember when APAT was first conceived, one of it"s aims was to strive towards getting a standardised set of rules for UK tournament poker, and that APAT's set of rules would apply at all events.  I know APAT had it"s own TD for a short while, but I had presumed that when it was decided that cardrooms" own TDs would run the tournament, that they would be applying APAT, rather than  house, rules.

Have I understood correctly, or are APAT tournaments now just played according to the rules of the venue?

[samuel_9]

   

[Honeybadg]

As for the pies - Am I the only one who thought they were nice?

I was neither over or underwhelmed and managed 2 - free food should never be questioned only eaten.

What about bulls eyes on sticks?

L

[bigalhx3]

There is no innocent and guilty here, the guy did not break any rules, so he has nothing to answer for and he is almost certainly unaware of this thread.  That said, he needs to understand what our general expectations are in these situations and he will be informed of that.  Other than that, no witch hunt here please, that"s not our style either.

I totally agree and I think the thread is best off left for now (or locked) as too many people are having too much to say and to be totally honest I"m uncomfortable with some of the baying that is going on in here.

As in Walsall I didn"t see or hear anything that went on (although I did leave the casino early   ) so I cannot comment but I do find it hard to understand people who didn"t witness an incident to pass judgement.

However, in Cardiff I did witness a horrific incident that I quietly PM"d Des about but my big mistake at the time was not getting an APAT organiser to witness it and as Des stated if these incidents occur bring it to their attention real time.

As for the OP - that situation sucks but I guess it will never happen to you again.
As for trash talk - it happens, you want to try sitting on a table with Gosney and Barry Neville.
As for people not being able to handle their beer and becoming violent -Bang out of order and I"m sure they will regret it.
As for the dealers - They were bad but our table was good at watching and helping him (table 9).
As for the pies - Am I the only one who thought they were nice?

i agree with him

the horrific incident in cardiff Des cant do anything about Dewi going out 1st hand hes a fish

[Cyntaf]

I had an excellent weekend. Spent the whole of Saturday @ table3, great day and great experience.
I must have broken the rules, as we had a small incident. I had folded my blind, some error occurred and the T.D. said hand dead, redeal. After this on the offbeat, i passed my blind to my right(the player who had raised), and still had his cards. I thought i was being honest??
Luckily, listening to the the thread, i waited for buffet queue to go down. The food had gone down also on arrival, and i managed to find one small sausage roll. I left straight at the end of play, and this was all i had to eat between breakfast on Sat a.m. to Sun a.m. Do i get a medal for this?

Our table was lively and jovial, but very pleasant and respectful all through the day. Dealer was not experienced but we too, helped along the way.

I played @ circus which was self dealt, also a private dealer on the cash, whom pays the house for the privilidge, and relies on tips. Valets were far and few between here also, but nowhere near as rare as the Maybury. Nowhere near on the ball as last year

I can"t say i saw any vulgar or abusive behaviour of note. i would have probably had to say something, or break the atmosphere

Anyways APAT FTW

[TightEnd]

I remember when APAT was first conceived, one of it"s aims was to strive towards getting a standardised set of rules for UK tournament poker, and that APAT's set of rules would apply at all events.  I know APAT had it"s own TD for a short while, but I had presumed that when it was decided that cardrooms" own TDs would run the tournament, that they would be applying APAT, rather than  house, rules.

Have I understood correctly, or are APAT tournaments now just played according to the rules of the venue?

APAT rules to apply at all venues

This particular venue needed to do significantly more than it had done to familiarise the TD/dealers with APAT rules before the event....the rules having been sent to them well beforehand. The fact that they did not was a contributory factor to some of the confusions that arose

[Hammerheid]

having waited to see what was being said , heres my tuppence worth ,

1) In the spirit of APAT the player who got wrong amount of chips back shouldve noticed immediately ( i would"ve) as for not realiseing i doubt it but enough said on that

2) behaviour , I didnt see what went on as i had already left but speaking to folks and reading this it seems to me that this was way worse than the goings on at walsall , i know scouse very well and , ok he swore a bit and was his usual self but thats what makes him who he is , the other involved at Walsall i had a brush with but even that was mild compared to the individual at Edinburgh Im pretty sure APAT will deal with him accordingly

3) the food , its all u folk from south of the border who dont know what a scotch pie is supposed to taste like ( ie crap ) thats why we dont eat them , seriously ive played regionals and been at scottish nationals before and the food was always streets ahead of the fare served up at this years event