Taking Advantage Of A Mistake

[MintTrav]

Played a live tournament at the weekend. Blinds 100 - 200. In BB with Q3, two limpers, UTG & mid-position. Flop Q93, two hearts. I bet 600 and both called. Turn J, still two hearts. I bet 1200; UTG called and mid dropped in a 1000 chip and two 500 chips. The dealer said that was a raise, the player said he meant to call but then went along with the ruling and put in another 400 for a min raise. The dealer came back to me for another 1200 and the raiser apologetically said "its just another 1200", inviting me to put it in. I believed that he had not done it deliberately and wasn"t pulling a number.

By now I was certain that I was currently winning. I thought that both of the other players had shown weakness and probably had draws or weakish improvable hands that they wanted to hang in with. I reraised all-in on this draw-heavy board, which was a further 3200 on top of his 1200. UTG folded; mid-position tanked for ages and eventually made the call with K9. He missed his 9 outs on the river and I made a large increase in my chips. UTG told me he had AQ, but that seems pretty unlikely.

At the time I was pleased with the outcome, but afterwards I wondered whether taking advantage of a player"s mistake like that was bad table etiquette and might have gone down badly in other places. I wouldn"t really want to do that but even less would I want to be too nice to my opponents and assist them in outdrawing me. No-one on the table said anything adverse regarding what I had done. Was it angle-shooting or acceptable play?

[pables]

Played a live tournament at the weekend. Blinds 100 - 200. In BB with Q3, two limpers, UTG & mid-position. Flop Q93, two hearts. I bet 600 and both called. Turn J, still two hearts. I bet 1200; UTG called and mid dropped in a 1000 chip and two 500 chips. The dealer said that was a raise, the player said he meant to call but then went along with the ruling and put in another 400 for a min raise. The dealer came back to me for another 1200 and the raiser apologetically said "its just another 1200", inviting me to put it in. I believed that he had not done it deliberately and wasn"t pulling a number.

By now I was certain that I was currently winning. I thought that both of the other players had shown weakness and probably had draws or weakish improvable hands that they wanted to hang in with. I reraised all-in on this draw-heavy board, which was a further 3200 on top of his 1200. UTG folded; mid-position tanked for ages and eventually made the call with K9. He missed his 9 outs on the river and I made a large increase in my chips. UTG told me he had AQ, but that seems pretty unlikely.

At the time I was pleased with the outcome, but afterwards I wondered whether taking advantage of a player"s mistake like that was bad table etiquette and might have gone down badly in other places. I wouldn"t really want to do that but even less would I want to be too nice to my opponents and assist them in outdrawing me. No-one on the table said anything adverse regarding what I had done. Was it angle-shooting or acceptable play?

I actually think the dealer got it wrong and it should have just been a call. I might be wrong but ethically you did nothing wrong! IMO

[LongshanksED]

Acceptable I"d say. It"s not your mistake. May sound harsh but the live games I"ve been involved with are very pernicity. Many a time I"ve made a mistake live and the other at the table hold me to it. In sure others have made mistakes and been held to it and paid the price. Tough for the oppponent buy he may take more notice in Future

[AMRN]

the mistake is the dealer"s - the guy called, he didn"t raise.... therefore you shouldn"t have had the opportunity to re-raise all in.

However, once the angle was created, you were perfectly entitled to shoot it.

[Paulie_D]

Regardless of the reasons or methods it most definitely WAS a raise and the dealer was correct.

He"s made it another 800 (on top of 1200) which is more than 50% of the previous raise and he"s therefore obligated to complete the raise.

[duke3016]

I understand the situation - but I fail to see the problem  -- not your problem anyway -- smile and move on

[pables]

Regardless of the reasons or methods it most definitely WAS a raise and the dealer was correct.

He"s made it another 800 (on top of 1200) which is more than 50% of the previous raise and he"s therefore obligated to complete the raise.

14. String raises are not allowed. To protect your right to raise, you should either declare your intention verbally or place the proper amount of chips into the pot. Putting a full bet plus a half-bet or more into the pot is considered to be the same as announcing a raise, and the raise must be completed. (This does not apply in the use of a single chip of greater value.)

I stand corrected found this on the poker forum. I did say I may be wrong

[Swinebag]

regardless of whether the dealer got it right or not, you seem to be suggesting that you should have just flat called his "raise" and let the oppo see the turn as you believe he intended.

I actually think you did the honourable thing and reraised to let him know that the turn wasn"t worth his while. Its not your fault he didn"t get the message.

[MintTrav]

Thanks guys. I have a new favourite hand - Q3 rocks!

[kinboshi]

regardless of whether the dealer got it right or not, you seem to be suggesting that you should have just flat called his "raise" and let the oppo see the turn as you believe he intended.

I actually think you did the honourable thing and reraised to let him know that the turn wasn"t worth his while. Its not your fault he didn"t get the message.

This.  I would have flatted and then tried to get more from him on the turn.  As it turned out, that wasn"t necessary - but that"s being results focused.

[antthecat]

depends on the cardroom as i have intentionally meant to raise but i nervously dropped one chip whilst trying to put my stack in and the manager said it was a call regardless of the chip value as i did not say raise. i did not mind as i hit the flush on the turn and got paid off after i said raise.

[Paulie_D]

Not relevant to the previous issue as the OP stated that the V put more than a single chip in when betting.

In your case, then yes, if you stick in a big chip without saying raise...then it"s a call.

[antthecat]

as the 1k chip fell first and he did not say raise some places would say its a call and he would have to put the 1200 in, dont get me wrong this mistake helped yourself and it played profitable but the dropping and fumbling of chips is usually a sign of massive strength as the shake is a release of tension as he is betting the nuts.