Opinions please

[Waz1892]

My 1st attempt at hand anyalsis in this way so forgive me for anything missing etc.

wud like opinions of this hand, will summerise when hand finished, of my thinking throughout, and other comments as a review...

I"m keen to learn..

EPO - freeroll...full table..blinds 200/400..i"m in BB.

***** Hand 1736327961 *****
200.00/400.00 Texas Hold'em (No Limit ) - 20 August 2009 23:07:27
$8000 EPO Freeroll (Real /Tournament )
Seat 1: XACE2WINX (8821.00)
Seat 2: Bigstudmuf (10106.00)
Seat 3: Unknown (0.00)
Seat 4: jiblit69 (28317.00)
Seat 5: pokerzex (4665.00)
Seat 6: realsirus (11281.00)
Seat 7: RNGmaster (17239.00)
Seat 8: unevno09 (8662.00)
Seat 9: comeonurz (14400.00)
Seat 10: AReddy (2224.00)
RNGmaster post SB 200.00
unevno09 post BB 400.00
** Deal **
XACE2WINX [N/A, N/A]
Bigstudmuf [N/A, N/A]
jiblit69 [N/A, N/A]
pokerzex [N/A, N/A]
realsirus [N/A, N/A]
RNGmaster [N/A, N/A]
unevno09 [, ]
comeonurz [N/A, N/A]
AReddy [N/A, N/A]
*** Bet Round 1 ***
comeonurz Fold
AReddy Fold
XACE2WINX Fold
Bigstudmuf Fold
jiblit69 Raise to 1100.00
pokerzex Fold
realsirus Fold
RNGmaster Fold
unevno09 Call 1100.00


villian is table chip leader and has been playing plenty of pots, and generally loose pre flop..and winning.

with antes pot was 1100..he bet the pot....

my thinking was 700 into 2900 pot pretty much good enough to see a flop..
also thinking his range is wide..and I"m at 3-1 va any random cards, with me putting him a none pair.(65/35%)...

(I have been number crunching on pokerstove for a while, and reading Harrington vol 2! -and i admit trying to get better!!)

so my questions...
is my thinking as it should be
is the maths Ok-ish
is the BB call a waste of 700 chips....wot is the "best move" here?

rest of hand later....as that seems like normal thing people do.

Cheers.

[AMRN]

with respect, I think your call is spewy. You may be getting reasonable odds to call, but you are going to miss the flop most of the time, and will have to then play it out of position for the rest of the hand. You"re calling off one eighth of your stack and praying for a miracle flop.  Perhaps call here for the odds when sitting deep - but 21xBB or M of 16 just isn"t deep enough.

Waste of chips imo

[Waz1892]

with respect, I think your call is spewy. You may be getting reasonable odds to call, but you are going to miss the flop most of the time, and will have to then play it out of position for the rest of the hand. You"re calling off one eighth of your stack and praying for a miracle flop.  Perhaps call here for the odds when sitting deep - but 21xBB or M of 16 just isn"t deep enough.

Waste of chips imo

opinion is wot im looking for AMRN..and 1st lesson...i worked out my M as 8....8600 chips / 1100 per round?..(400/200 50 antes).

if it is 16 then yes..bad call...still have time to play

[GR8TFL0P]

wow

JMO
Chip (loose) leader, and you just call his raise leaving you first to act post flop. Even if your planning a steal (reraise pre flop would ave been better) I"m sure you can find better (99%) positions.

[AMRN]

with respect, I think your call is spewy. You may be getting reasonable odds to call, but you are going to miss the flop most of the time, and will have to then play it out of position for the rest of the hand. You"re calling off one eighth of your stack and praying for a miracle flop.  Perhaps call here for the odds when sitting deep - but 21xBB or M of 16 just isn"t deep enough.

Waste of chips imo

opinion is wot im looking for AMRN..and 1st lesson...i worked out my M as 8....8600 chips / 1100 per round?..(400/200 50 antes).

if it is 16 then yes..bad call...still have time to play

you"re correct - M is 8. your original post said "EPO - freeroll...full table..blinds 200/400..i"m in BB" - I didn"t realise there was a 50 ante.

this just serves to stress my point further - you simply cannot flat call here - it"s all in or fold in this spot. you can"t call off so much of your stack and hope to hit a miracle flop out of position with rags with such a tight M. if you think villain is stealing, you have enough fold equity to re-steal with a bold all in - risky move though unless you"re confident you know what he has.

[LongshanksED]

I"d probably have called a min raise personally but the 1100 I"d just fold.

Yeah you could hit a juicy flop and maybe double up but I"d let this go and hopefully get a spot in the next orbit to steal a few blinds & antes. You need help with chips soon but your not anywhere near desperate yet

[lukybugur]

My opinion; all above is good advice.

[Marty719]

Insta fold pre - if u do play it then check raise any flop and then show ur 4high

[TopPair2Pair]

Hi Waz,

Only thing I would add is what"s your strategy if you hit a board like, K92, A4J, QT2? Are you really going to be beating his opening range? (More importantly are you going to follow it through? whats your plan right up to the river?)

If his playing a lot of pots, and stealing them when its folded to him then I think there"s nothing wrong with a re steal, that you can do with any two if you have a read that his doing it with trash. But you need to 3bet to do this and given your stack-size I would just shove if this is your reasoning.

If you were just defending your blind then its a fold and look for a better spot.

[Roscopiko]

definite raise or fold for reasons above.

[Waz1892]

Rest of the hand - for what it is worth...

*** Flop(Board): *** : [, , ]
*** Bet Round 2 ***
unevno09 Bet 2850.00
jiblit69 All-in 27217.00
unevno09 All-in 7562.00
*** Turn(Board): *** : [, , , ]
*** River(Board): *** : [, , , , ]
*** Showdown *** : Rake: 0.00 Total Pot: 17974.00
XACE2WINX Fold Win: 0.00
Bigstudmuf Fold Win: 0.00


My whole thinking once he put in ANOTHER raise, was that my 42o wouldn"t be in that bad of shape, and i may hit the flop in sum way  I understand the opinions, and most defo respect them with the view to re-raise all in. (in the chat afterwards i said i should have re-stole, if i thought he was stealing himself- yes i agree.

the flop i think is perfect for my hand....so i bet, knowing he wud re-raise me, and id b calling and pretty much knew i was ahead.....My thought was if flop was dangerous then check /fold to his envitable bet.

hand played itslef, once i hit the flop in someway, as he was always re-raise me all in after i c-betted.

query -

is any of the play any good, or all trash?
do i have ANY ( ) agruement for the call preflop, based on my whole hand thinking?

was pleased with the hand (until this thread, and now yes i can see all in pre is a better solution if im playing in it at all.)..
Is my thinking, planning on the right track..

again, ty for all opinions thus far.


jiblit69 [, As] Pair of tens Win: 17974.00
pokerzex Fold Win: 0.00
realsirus Fold Win: 0.00
RNGmaster Fold Win: 0.00
unevno09 [, ] Pair of fours Win: 0.00
comeonurz Fold Win: 0.00
AReddy Fold Win: 0.00

[LongshanksED]

IMO you got unlucky on the river after a lucky flop and your read was right but it"s not what I wouldve done

but also the flop woulve been good for the villian too with any pocket pair 66> and it"s doubtful you have A9 and with him re raising it"s showing stregth even though by this point your commitited to the end

fold pre and fight on in the next coupleof orbits

[deanp27]

fold pre
/thread

[Waz1892]

on reflection now (amazing isn"t it!!) im should be folding or re-raising.

I"m im thinking his is stealing with a fairly wide range ( which i did and he was), then i should be re-raising, giving him a decision for 1/4 of his stack.

lesson learnt.....go with your read, or bail...nothing half hearted.

I now see this, so thank-you....but im pleased with my thinking, just not the execution of it!

[bigredders]

eh? is this just mega loose or am i getting tight in my old age?!