why did i bother?

[antthecat]

i was playing at my local venue and a certain situaton came up:

villan and i had got to the river, i bet and he calls, he showed  :as: only for a paired ace, i flipped over my bluff  qh js, he mucks and i say "my pot then" as he did not show both cards, this caused a argument as i was 99% sure that holdem is a two hole card game and both must be shown for the winning hand, as he only shown one then mucked he did not prove to have a winning hand but the other players were saying that his paired ace counts.

its not that my bluff got called is what was annoying but i wish people would play by the rules and show all hole cards to claim a pot.

btw was i right or wrong with my point? please help

[Mikeyboy9361]

Not really an expert on the rules. But if the shown Ace wins the pot for him, then I would just give him the pot, and I would have thought that would be the case in nearly all pub games. And I would have thought the same goes for Casinos IMHO.

[monkeyman]

I"m with Mikey. If his Ace has paired and you"ve hit nothing, unlucky. I don"t believe there is a rule which backs you up in this situation and even if there was I think you"re being a little disingenious by trying to claim any part of this pot. You lost, try again next time.

[linziwan]

I disagree with the decision to give him the money - I am sure that both cards need to be shown to claim the pot. The dealer should have asked him to show both cards.

[deanp27]

need to show both hole cards to take a pot - see what happened to Roland De Wolfe in the EPT

[daveyb147]

i believe linz is spot on,,,u must show both hole cards and the dealer should have insisted.

[ck1888]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr2agX80ZyE  

[ck1888]

This is a hot topic on the forums the now with regards to showing the one card.  The EPT incident is on link above.

[coprey]

It is my understanding that both cards need to be shown. If however a player shows one card which demonstrates the pot is won, then accidentally or purposely mucks the other card so that it is impossible to retrieve, who should be awarded the pot? The losing hand, the winning hand or is it split? In these situations I would hope common sense would prevail and the player get a warning by the dealer or TD that both cards must be shown, and that the pot stil l go to the winning hand.

[AceOnTheRiver]

Those who say that both cards must be shown are right imho although coprey is very much the voice of reason and I agree with him - we had a simlar (although very light-hearted) situation at Aspers last night where the player showing the card which paired was told to show both:

"Do I have to?"
"Well, only if you want the chips"  

I think the key point is that we need a standardised set of rules covering all situations and available / displayed in all card rooms with Pub Poker leagues also signing up to these rules (if you play in a pool league, this is the situation - I accept poker is more complex).

Another example of this is "calling the clock". In the WSOP any player at the table can do it (reference Tiffany Michelle 2008 ME), In APAT only players in the hand can call it, but at the WCOAP DTD rules took precedent, i.e. any player at the table - I"m not saying that"s wrong, just pointing out the inconsitencies.

[kinboshi]

Of course you have to show both cards to win a pot in any "proper" venue.  Anyone who shows one card and tries to claim a pot deserves to be shot anyway, but that"s another matter.

Amongst a number of things, one reason you have to show both is that the other card in your hand might be a rogue card (i.e. a 53rd card in the deck meaning that there is more than one of the same card in the deck, etc.).  

[coprey]

The big question for me follows:

Why did Tobias flat call with Q high?

[deanp27]

The big question for me follows:

Why did Tobias flat call with Q high?

he thought it was possibly good - his expanation is on 2+2 but not sure i can post the link on here

Hello, I"m the "random EuroDonk" (thx alot for the nice description btw).

Just to give a short explanation of the hand: I had good reasons to believe that de Wolfe was bluffing here a decenct amount of the time and that he would just openmuck his hand in this case even if his bluff beats my hand (like lots of live players do when they have been caught bluffing).

Just to clarify: I did not say at any point that my hand beats Khi and also never insulted Roland or something (I actually think he"s a pretty nice guy and we talked about this hand very friendly just 15 minutes later). I only told him to show his second card or I will not show.

Why do you think Roland showed the btw? Definitely not because he though he had any showdown value at all. Imo he showed his hand to pretent to have had a busted flushdraw and/or to make me show my hand. Directly after his river bet, I instantly grabbed the chips out of my stack as if I"d auto call and started a little conversation with him and said that I had a pretty strong hand that I cannot muck (that part has been cut from the vid). So how can de Wolfe possibly think his Khi has any showdown value at all in a big pot like that after he gets called?!

I admit that the fist pump was a bit out of line and apologize for it (even though poker is war not a playground). All the pent-up tension has been released at that moment as I didn"t expect him to show a K or a bluff that beats me and I was trying to stay cool to make him muck his hand. I don"t think my behaviour was unethical or something though. It would have been smarter not to show my hand and just take the pot because this would have saved me from a lot of trouble.

[AMRN]

if show one card and muck the other, you only have one card.... therefore your hand is dead. Takes two cards to make a hand, and a live hand is needed to claim a pot.

[antthecat]

i did not want to look like an a***hole but there are rules for play, if two players are all in then they dont show one card, they show both, in my op his ace was winning but i did ask him to show a full hand earlier that evening which he didnt and claimed the pot, i had to make a point this time and try to get the game played properly.

after a few words the matter was resolved and i claimed the pot, after this everyone was taking the piss by showing one and then saying 10 seconds later "oh, my kicker was this!" come on everyone play by the rules