Limp - Shove: Who's right

[AceOnTheRiver]

This happened on the final table of a £20 F/O I was playing in last week.

We are 1 away from the bubble. SB is very short with about 3.5 BBs, BB is not overly stacked <10 BB and UTG has an average stack.

UTG limps and it is folded around to the SB who shoves. BB takes a long time before calling SB"s all-in when the UTG player insta-shoves.

At this point the BB folds and goes ballistic calling the UTG player an idiot and that he was calling to check it down to knock a player out "even if he held Aces"

FWIW the UTG player held 77 which held against SBs AK

IMO UTG was right to shove as BB showed a lot of weakness when he called and is unlikely to be favourite against 2 players but I"m curious as to people"s opinion as I may be basing mine on the individuals involved rather than their play.

[Swinebag]

At this point the BB folds and goes ballistic calling the UTG player an idiot and that he was calling to check it down to knock a player out "even if he held Aces"

This did make me lol. Basically the BB had a tantrum because he put in a third of his stack and didn"t get to showdown.

UTG got to knock out a short stack and pick up the same in dead money

great bubble play sir!!

[coprey]

Sounds fairly standard to me. I reckon UTG suspected a push from SB and was fully intending to call this. BB just calls which is awful IMO. He should either fold or push. His opinion about just calling with AA is garbage. In this hand UTG and SB both played well and BB played awful.

[kinboshi]

Limp-shove FTW.

[AceOnTheRiver]

Cheers - confirms what I thought. BB is a "character" (many of the regulars have other words for him)  

[AMRN]

the only time BB is correct about several callers checking it down to eliminate the all-in player is on a satellite bubble. In this particular circumstance, the UTG is playing it perfectly correctly to get the showdown headsup and maximise his chance of winning the hand.

I love it when people make plays assuming others will follow their script, then get upset when things don"t go to their plan.

[MintTrav]

There is a bit of a myth about checking-down an all-in short-stack. There are occasions when checking-down is the correct play, but not doing so is often a great way to create dead money, though you will often attract criticism from those with some, but not enough, knowledge. It is only applicable in the later stages as there is negligible value in knocking out one player when there are many remaining, but I have seen people doing it with strong hands (but which could be overtaken) when there are 90 players left, which is nonsensical.

[duke3016]

There is a bit of a myth about checking-down an all-in short-stack. There are occasions when checking-down is the correct play, but not doing so is often a great way to create dead money, though you will often attract criticism from those with some, but not enough, knowledge. It is only applicable in the later stages as there is negligible value in knocking out one player when there are many remaining, but I have seen people doing it with strong hands (but which could be overtaken) when there are 90 players left, which is nonsensical.

If I understood what he said I might agree  

[deanp27]

rofl at all of their plays imo, apart from SB

[kinboshi]

rofl at all of their plays imo, apart from SB

What"s up with the UTG"s play?

[Cyntaf]

I think BB has received some info in the past, or has been slated for doing the same maybe early in his playing days by whom he thought  a better player at the time. He now therefore thinks this is the correct play at any time against any player etc, but he has learnt one thing. How to shout at the  player utg for costing him, and not going to showdown. Unfortunately this will not have any effect on the UTG, he"s played before and has his own agenda,(ie not to simply make the money). Good play/bad play? Depends, did this help accomplish utg goal, if so then very well played. Did it cost him later, with image (re> with 77)? If so then bad play?

I"ll make a decision one day, but not today

[deanp27]

rofl at all of their plays imo, apart from SB

What"s up with the UTG"s play?

i don"t like limping into 2 short stacks with a hand like 77, in fact i don"t like limping at all at this stage of the tourney, the iso is obviously ok

[AceOnTheRiver]

Paul, I take ure point about the BB but I have a more simplistic view - i.e. he"s just a .........   And UTG did achieve his aim resulting in a deal 4-handed (it was late, it was a school night).

I actually don"t mind UTG"s limp too much as it costs him less if one of the medium stacks shoves than if he makes a standard raise - it played out perfectly for him which was lucky but there you go.