S3 APAT National League - Grand Final Discussion

[Rabsie]

OK, ty. Found it now.

Cheers

[undisputed]

Completely disagree w/ most ppl above.  The only thing a 10k s/s will do is make it a more skillful affair - gd job APAT once again.  Gna b hard to luckbox GUKPT seats w/ this structure  May the best team win (or just let Belfast win )

well said........ lol...
Pretty much rules out any chance you may have had then....... guess the top 10 teams all "luckboxed" their way 2 the final eh..........    that"s what you"re sayin?? clown !!!

[AJDUK]

Because we have no side prizes to play for it will be interesting to see what players do that have no chance of winning (because their team mates are out or their team can"t win) but still have plenty of chips. Will they be interested to carry on late into the night to keep the rest of the players honest or will we see some players having a wee bit of fun whilst the rest are trying to play their A game? Perhaps they will sit out and just blind away. There are quite a few possibilities most of which I don"t like, and introduces a different dynamic that certainly wasn"t present during the league games.

Removing any kind of side incentive was a mistake IMHO and could make the game farcical at times. I hope I"m wrong.

[cincicrappykid]

+1

[bigalhx3]

As there no cash at stake and the only prize is (very good it is) 4 GUKPT seats will someone be running over the hole cards after the game to see if team members are chip dumping or soft playing with team members i personaly see nothing wrong with soft playing against team members as its all about getting the team to number 1 but chip dumping is wrong or is it as its a team event and if people are found to be doing this wot will apats view on it be

[Glorious]

GL Northern guys for tonight

[THEGUY84]

It looks like the glasgow team might have a player down tonight. Been trying for weeks to get hold of one of the teams members to no response. Bit gutted but we can still fight on with 3 players if this is the cases.

Kenny

[rudders]

As there no cash at stake and the only prize is (very good it is) 4 GUKPT seats will someone be running over the hole cards after the game to see if team members are chip dumping or soft playing with team members i personaly see nothing wrong with soft playing against team members as its all about getting the team to number 1 but chip dumping is wrong or it it as its a team event and if people are found to be doing this wot will apats view on it be

agreed...... although folding aa preflop to avoid knocking out a team mate may be the only way that you still have a chance of winning (the only prize) In this situation do you fold knowing that you can no longer win? or do the "right" thing? what indeed is APATs line on this? Are we to be asked to commit poker suicide to adhere to a corinthian spirit?

Because we have no side prizes to play for it will be interesting to see what players do that have no chance of winning (because their team mates are out or their team can"t win) but still have plenty of chips. Will they be interested to carry on late into the night to keep the rest of the players honest or will we see some players having a wee bit of fun whilst the rest are trying to play their A game? Perhaps they will sit out and just blind away. There are quite a few possibilities most of which I don"t like, and introduces a different dynamic that certainly wasn"t present during the league games.

Removing any kind of side incentive was a mistake IMHO and could make the game farcical at times. I hope I"m wrong.

agreed.



This has been a brilliant league and it is a shame that a the finale with a fantastic prize has been devalued with this uncertanty.  TYVM to Apat for a superb league series whatever the result.

[Chipaccrual]

Okay guys, looks like it"s down to me to clarify a view points.


Firstly, the structure that we have gone for is aimed at giving players a bit more play in what is the end of season finale.  As far as the seating draw goes, it is random and we have had to go with this due to Blue Square software issues.  We looked at other options, and spoke with the relevant club captains, before taking a majority view.  For your information, the only way to ensure a different player from each club on each of the 4 starting tables was to play 4xSTT with a double shootout type of structure.  Going by the comments about us changing the structure anyway, glad we didn"t go with this one.  

I"m not sure that making it a $10 tournament would have any influence on how the tournament will play out.  What"s a $400 prizepool when there is over £4k of GUKPT seats up for grabs ?  And this is the grand final that players have qualified for, so making them pay up seems not quite right.

How will players react if they are the only player left in their team with a lot of chips and little chance of winning ?    Well, points are awarded at 20th place on onwards.  If we are at a point of 20 player, I am chipleader and all my team-mates are out, then my thought would be the maximum points I can get are 20, will that be enough to take it down ?  Don"t know, might get us medals though ?  It"s quite a prestigous event to win, bearing in mind you are playing against the best 40 players in the league.

And finally, collusion, softplay and chipdumping.  We realise that this is a team event.  So far the league has mostly been played in the spirit which we had hoped, and I cannot think of an instance where play has crossed the line as far as collusion goes.  No one is going to want to knock out a team-mate, so there is going to be an obvious case of finding a balance.

There will be a lot of eyes on this tournament tonight, and any suggesting of chipdumping will be dealt with strongly by APAT.  As for folding AA when up against a team-mate, well, in my opinion, you have to make the decision that is right for your team.  A lot of it comes down to pot commitment and the table dynamics.

We cannot stop MSN, Skype, text messages, phonecalls between players, but I would hope that APAT players are above that and show some respect for each others game.

I"m sure everyone of the players playing tonight will play in the correct spirit and with the structure in place, the best team will win out and take down the GUKPT seats.


Good luck everyone.

[rudders]

As for folding AA when up against a team-mate, well, in my opinion, you have to make the decision that is right for your team.


Good luck everyone.

thanks for clarfying this- and all else leigh The rest- yep i agree- not the easiest job you guys have in the world!

[Chipaccrual]

As for folding AA when up against a team-mate, well, in my opinion, you have to make the decision that is right for your team.


Good luck everyone.

thanks for clarfying this- and all else leigh The rest- yep i agree- not the easiest job you guys have in the world!

I"m not sure how well I do clarify it, but on the example you give of having AA preflop against my team-mate, I"m folding and happy that I"m not cheating anyone and playing in the best interests of my team.  Unless my team-mate has significantly more chips than me, then I"m sticking the aces in his eye and hoping he doesn"t bust me with K4o.  

[rudders]

you clarified it fine!  I would not fold aa against someone from another team- therefore it is a form of soft play or tsctical play- as long as we know this is not against the rules we can do it. It makes sense in a team situation, but not in a pure poker sense. ( the only other situation where it would be sensible is on the bubble in a qualifier). For hte record I would not have done it in the earlier rounds. I just want to make sure that all is above board and that we all know what is acceptable and what isnt.

[undisputed]

you clarified it fine!  I would not fold aa against someone from another team- therefore it is a form of soft play or tsctical play- as long as we know this is not against the rules we can do it. It makes sense in a team situation, but not in a pure poker sense. ( the only other situation where it would be sensible is on the bubble in a qualifier). For hte record I would not have done it in the earlier rounds. I just want to make sure that all is above board and that we all know what is acceptable and what isnt.

AGREED...... and ty Leigh, the league has been well run, organised and a lot of fun........ you and the guys have done a gr8 job....... just hope tonight doesnt end up being a 6 hour joke spoiling 9 moths of excellent work........ guess tonight will reveal all...

[APAT]

you clarified it fine!  I would not fold aa against someone from another team- therefore it is a form of soft play or tsctical play- as long as we know this is not against the rules we can do it. It makes sense in a team situation, but not in a pure poker sense. ( the only other situation where it would be sensible is on the bubble in a qualifier). For hte record I would not have done it in the earlier rounds. I just want to make sure that all is above board and that we all know what is acceptable and what isnt.

AGREED...... and ty Leigh, the league has been well run, organised and a lot of fun........ you and the guys have done a gr8 job....... just hope tonight doesnt end up being a 6 hour joke spoiling 9 moths of excellent work........ guess tonight will reveal all...

I hope that won"t be determined by how far your team goes Dan?  

Please remember it is a level playing field for all teams and it is the APAT National Final, so it is a much bigger event than the league stages.  If a team doesn"t get it right tonight, there is no coming back in two weeks time.

Be aware also that several major potential sponsors are viewing this thread and the S4 thread including Blue Square, assessing the value APAT could bring to them next season, so you guys are representing more than just your clubs tonight and I expect the APAT ethos to be carried through to the end.  

[undisputed]

you clarified it fine!  I would not fold aa against someone from another team- therefore it is a form of soft play or tsctical play- as long as we know this is not against the rules we can do it. It makes sense in a team situation, but not in a pure poker sense. ( the only other situation where it would be sensible is on the bubble in a qualifier). For hte record I would not have done it in the earlier rounds. I just want to make sure that all is above board and that we all know what is acceptable and what isnt.

AGREED...... and ty Leigh, the league has been well run, organised and a lot of fun........ you and the guys have done a gr8 job....... just hope tonight doesnt end up being a 6 hour joke spoiling 9 moths of excellent work........ guess tonight will reveal all...

I hope that won"t be determined by how far your team goes Dan?  

Please remember it is a level playing field for all teams and it is the APAT National Final, so it is a much bigger event than the league stages.  If a team doesn"t get it right tonight, there is no coming back in two weeks time.

Be aware also that several major potential sponsors are viewing this thread and the S4 thread including Blue Square, assessing the value APAT could bring to them next season, so you guys are representing more than just your clubs tonight and I expect the APAT ethos to be carried through to the end. 

No it won"t, and apologies, maybe Joke wasn"t the best word to be used. Just a little concerned that as already pointed out, 2 major factors may come into play

1. if a club has 3/4 of its players on the same table, could prove advantageous....

2. if a player is the only one left from a club, and believes he is playing with no hope of winning anything........

again, i appreciate the difficulty you guys have  and re-iterate the fact that the league has been fantastic fun from start to finish,  and even with the   low buy in i have found myself wanting to put probably more effort into the league events, than in higher stake events that i usually play. i plan on continuing that ethos into tonight and will give 100%.