Live deepstack - Queens in early 3bet pot

[deanp27]

ok here"s an exam question - please give thought process etc

Just like some views on this - this happened to me early on in a DTD deepstack - 45 minute clock, 10,000 chips and blinds are 25/50 - about 20 minutes in. Assume we all have c10k stacks.

Blinds are seat 8&9 - i am in seat 5(hijack MP). Seat 2 has been very active and raised c25% of pots early from various positions(example A8s from UTG), seat 4 has been quiet but has made it obvious that he doesn"t rate seat 2.

Seat 2 makes it 200 and seat 4 makes it 600 - i look down at  qd qh

1. what is your move and plan for the rest of the hand depending upon action?



2. Can you also consider how you would play the following starting hands:

AA
KK
JJ
22-TT
AK

tyvm

[noble1]

hmmm lots of questions there dean
QQ - seat4 is the only ?? here , is he 3bet raising to isolate light or is he strong, its still early and we are deep and i dont really want to see a flop 3way with QQ so i"d make a std ish 4bet to 1800 to 2000 and if seat4 5bets i fold if seat2 gets funky and 4 folds i"m more than happy to take 2 on.. if both just call i"m not thrilled unless a Q comes on the flop
AA KK meh i"m happy enough playing post in position with these so 50/50 just call/4bet
JJ AK meh horrible spot to 4bet and to just smooth ,, set mining JJ would be ok if was sure seat2 will call as well but i"m more in favour of folding both JJ and AK here
22-TT not really an ideal spot to set mine i tend to want around 20x implied odds ,, so like JJ i"d fold them as well..

what did u end up doing dean??

[deanp27]

not gonna tell you what i did yet until i get more responses - i don"t just want 1 word answers

response is good ty

i will say that i have had these sort of spots alot in very deepstacked comps such as the DTD anniversary cup etc and i think they are interesting - i seem to get queens 4x more than i get kings or aces in these comps lol.

so you are 4bet and felting vs seat 2 and 4bet/folding vs seat 4?

[noble1]

sure if seat2 dude is raising 25% , me thinks is range is wide enough to call a shove pre if he makes it, if 2 smooths and 4 gets outta the way then post flop depending on 2"s line of play i"m more than happy to have position

are u seat 2 by chance?  lol

[deanp27]

no i am seat 5 and reads are kind of unreliable as we are only 20 or so minutes into the comp.

[Marty719]

4-bet to 1800, fold to a 5-bet shove from either player (even particularly active players rnt gng to go mental in this spot).

AA - still 4-betting to 1800 and obv getting it in
KK - as above
22-TT - Insta-fold
JJ/AK - A good mix here depending on other variables:

-If we know seat 4 doesn"t rate seat 2 then he could b iso-3-betting a wider range than usual and our 4-bet wins the pot - obv if sum1 5-bet shoves we insta-muck.
-Flatting is only ok if we know seat 2 is only gng to 4-bet here with the top of his range and will flat w/ the majority of his opening range
-Folding is not in my nature but is a pretty good option in this spot.

I think I mix up JJ/AK depending on how I feel about the other players and what my image is at that time. Prob fold 50%/ Raise 30% and flat 20% ish

[AMRN]

so you are 4bet and felting vs seat 2 and 4bet/folding vs seat 4?

^ this

[Swinebag]

I think I have the best hand here, but am not prepared to go to war this early with stacks so deep. I"m flatting and using position for the rest of the hand. If seat 2 comes back over the top then I have an easy fold.

[Marty719]

I think I have the best hand here, but am not prepared to go to war this early with stacks so deep. I"m flatting and using position for the rest of the hand. If seat 2 comes back over the top then I have an easy fold.

I sorta dnt mind flatting but leads to sum ugly situations:  

- What if we get a raggedy 9 high flop and seat 2 bets 1k and seat 4 folds?
- What if seat 2 checks and seat 4 bets 1k?

What r our actions in each?

Just think its quite hard to approach these flops w/ zero information on the players, and very little information on their hands.

[kinboshi]

I think I have the best hand here, but am not prepared to go to war this early with stacks so deep. I"m flatting and using position for the rest of the hand. If seat 2 comes back over the top then I have an easy fold.

Nearly with this, but I raise pre, and then go along with the rest.

[Chipaccrual]

I think I have the best hand here, but am not prepared to go to war this early with stacks so deep. I"m flatting and using position for the rest of the hand. If seat 2 comes back over the top then I have an easy fold.

Nearly with this, but I raise pre, and then go along with the rest.

I agree with Dan on this one.

[kinboshi]

I think I have the best hand here, but am not prepared to go to war this early with stacks so deep. I"m flatting and using position for the rest of the hand. If seat 2 comes back over the top then I have an easy fold.

Nearly with this, but I raise pre, and then go along with the rest.

I agree with Dan on this one.

I"ve changed my mind then.

Flat call pre instead, no idea why, but it"s different to what Leigh would do.

[deanp27]

range of answers so far - anyone want to assign possible ranges and plan etc if they do flat? how would you play the other hands i posted?

i know this is a bit tougher than the normal hand analysis post but i think these type of spots are quite interesting

[AMRN]

The way you describe seat2, he could have any two cards - and QQ smashes most of his range.

Given the animosity from seat4 to seat2 as you described, seat4 could be 3-bettng a very wide range here.

Flat calling with QQ is a mistake - you need more info before you play a flop. Couple that with the fact that QQ is the third best starting hand, and is most probably ahead here, you have to re-raise.

If seat2 shoves, I think a call is reasonable. If seat4 shoves, I suspect AA/KK and I fold.

If both or either flat call, I"m ready to get my stack in if the flop shows no K or A.

Any K or A on the flop after their flat call, and I open or raise in position to see what happens.

[Swinebag]

I"d need to see a flop before a plan of action and would see what oppo does first.

I"d also flat with AA,KK and AK as part of a balanced strategy. I"m probably folding the rest though

Hand ranges are difficult to assign.

seat 2 may be tighter having shown A8 UTG (so go for top 20%)
seat 5 may be looser than expected for a MP 3 bettor.

I suppose the 4 bet would narrow these ranges but it seems bad to 4 bet/fold having put in 20% of your stack in. What would we do if called then check raised on a low card flop?