Author Topic: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion  (Read 221027 times)

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Chipaccrual

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2009, 14:48:36 PM »



Any live event within 100 miles of home would be nice,but it doesn"t look as though that is going to happen. Can we play league games with a deeper stack/longer clock as this year they tended to be shovefests from the word go?  


Really ?   2500 Starting stack with a 12 minute clock.  Regardless of the runners, these events were taking over 4 hours to finish (Trust me, I final tabled all 20  ;D )

I watched one in the Southern Division where no one went out for the first hour.


What would be your ideal structure, obviously keeping it realistic that these are $10 buyins ?




My post certainly wasn"t intended as a criticism of the concept of the league and I"m more than grateful for what APAT has provided for me in the years since inception, but I played, at most, six league games in the early part of the season and I just wanted to give some feedback which could explain my lack of appearances. The current model has a lot to commend it and I"m not arrogant enough to think my participation is the be all and end all, but there is room to build upon what is already there.
  In answer to the question about exactly what the structure should be, I don"t have an exact answer to give. The structure as is stands doesn"t allow for much "creative play"; the current stack sizes limit the number of times that a player can 3 bet/ c-bet with complete air/try moves not in any text book without being at risk of losing a signifcant proportion of your stack. The nationals were generally taking 6-7 hours to complete with 10000 starting chips, so maybe we should aim somewhere in the middle, say 5000 chips/13 minute blinds? The nationals had stacks of good play and whilst I realise that having something with the same structure on a more regular basis probably isn"t practical, surely there"s room for some narrowing of the gap between the two versions of the game we saw in season 3?  


No criticism taken.  I"m guessing that when you play online, you pretty much play deepstack tournements ?


Mikeyboy9361

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2009, 14:57:52 PM »
Thought the structure was fine for a $10 buy in, and a reasonable finish time, I wouldn"t tinker with that bit.
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monkeyman

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2009, 15:03:52 PM »




Any live event within 100 miles of home would be nice,but it doesn"t look as though that is going to happen. Can we play league games with a deeper stack/longer clock as this year they tended to be shovefests from the word go?  


Really ?   2500 Starting stack with a 12 minute clock.  Regardless of the runners, these events were taking over 4 hours to finish (Trust me, I final tabled all 20  ;D )

I watched one in the Southern Division where no one went out for the first hour.


What would be your ideal structure, obviously keeping it realistic that these are $10 buyins ?




My post certainly wasn"t intended as a criticism of the concept of the league and I"m more than grateful for what APAT has provided for me in the years since inception, but I played, at most, six league games in the early part of the season and I just wanted to give some feedback which could explain my lack of appearances. The current model has a lot to commend it and I"m not arrogant enough to think my participation is the be all and end all, but there is room to build upon what is already there.
  In answer to the question about exactly what the structure should be, I don"t have an exact answer to give. The structure as is stands doesn"t allow for much "creative play"; the current stack sizes limit the number of times that a player can 3 bet/ c-bet with complete air/try moves not in any text book without being at risk of losing a signifcant proportion of your stack. The nationals were generally taking 6-7 hours to complete with 10000 starting chips, so maybe we should aim somewhere in the middle, say 5000 chips/13 minute blinds? The nationals had stacks of good play and whilst I realise that having something with the same structure on a more regular basis probably isn"t practical, surely there"s room for some narrowing of the gap between the two versions of the game we saw in season 3?  


No criticism taken.  I"m guessing that when you play online, you pretty much play deepstack tournements ?




As often as I can, yes. There"s always an element of compromise in any selection. I would never play in one of those 30 minute blind things on Pokerstars that last for 15hours, as I would only be interested in playing for that length of time if it was for a life-changing amount. There are always going to be exceptions to any rule, but I prefer tounrnements where I can at least pretend I used an element of skill if I make a few quid. I never play rebuys and I never play tournaments with 1500 chips and 10 minute blinds which seem all too prevalent on Ipoker.
  Any tournament which gives the chance for a small-stakes player like myself to take part in something like a GUKPT is very welcome. Not much tweaking to the current product is required before I decide to play more frequently.
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deanp27

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2009, 15:07:12 PM »
online structure is perfect for a Sunday.
Looking forward to making my first day 2

Baldus New

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2009, 15:07:51 PM »




Any live event within 100 miles of home would be nice,but it doesn"t look as though that is going to happen. Can we play league games with a deeper stack/longer clock as this year they tended to be shovefests from the word go?  


Really ?   2500 Starting stack with a 12 minute clock.  Regardless of the runners, these events were taking over 4 hours to finish (Trust me, I final tabled all 20  ;D )

I watched one in the Southern Division where no one went out for the first hour.


What would be your ideal structure, obviously keeping it realistic that these are $10 buyins ?




My post certainly wasn"t intended as a criticism of the concept of the league and I"m more than grateful for what APAT has provided for me in the years since inception, but I played, at most, six league games in the early part of the season and I just wanted to give some feedback which could explain my lack of appearances. The current model has a lot to commend it and I"m not arrogant enough to think my participation is the be all and end all, but there is room to build upon what is already there.
  In answer to the question about exactly what the structure should be, I don"t have an exact answer to give. The structure as is stands doesn"t allow for much "creative play"; the current stack sizes limit the number of times that a player can 3 bet/ c-bet with complete air/try moves not in any text book without being at risk of losing a signifcant proportion of your stack. The nationals were generally taking 6-7 hours to complete with 10000 starting chips, so maybe we should aim somewhere in the middle, say 5000 chips/13 minute blinds? The nationals had stacks of good play and whilst I realise that having something with the same structure on a more regular basis probably isn"t practical, surely there"s room for some narrowing of the gap between the two versions of the game we saw in season 3?  


No criticism taken.  I"m guessing that when you play online, you pretty much play deepstack tournements ?



Loved the idea of the league but if you were in a team with fewer numbers or you didn"t get off to a great start in the League, towards the end it was harder to compete against the more successful teams that had you outnumbered at times by maybe two or three to one and could lock up points in some cases by sheer numbers.
Like the idea of 5,000 chips and maybe start an hour earlier to help accomodate?
Having ran a local live league recently, it is very hard to keep the numbers up throughout, as by the second half of the league, some teams have no chance of qualifying for whatever they are aiming for and so the numbers will drop off.
Maybe if there was some reward or incentitve for being the top points scorer in your team, it would help to keep numbers up and give team members of less successful / supported teams something to keep going for? Maybe if the top three teams from each dividion qualified for the end of season team event, the top points scoring players from each non qualified team could make up two additional teams to enter it aswell? Just a thought to help keep numbers up and give the smaller teams an incentitive to keep competing each week.

Bodddders

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2009, 15:14:01 PM »
ONLINE LEAGUE

Think the structure is spot on for a Sunday night $10 buy-in. Finish around midnight and the 2,500 starting stack does allow some play, it isn"t or shouldn"t be a deep deepstack tournament, thats what the nationals are for. Its a League and as such plays very well IMHO.
Like the idea of the three divisions (twice yearly) with the promotion and relegation. I guess the added value on offer will be higher in the top divison, therefore giving everyone something to strive for. The smaller clubs will need to do some building up, so prehaps they should ask Suzy from Bristol what the secret is!

NATIONALS

Like the idea of making a weekend of it. As someone who struggles to make a day two, something on the Sunday to make the expense of overnight accomodation seem worthwhile has to be good.

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AMRN

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2009, 15:17:10 PM »

NATIONALS

Like the idea of making a weekend of it. As someone who struggles to make a day two, something on the Sunday to make the expense of overnight accomodation seem worthwhile has to be good.


this definitely has mileage - 85% of the field don"t make day two, yet most will have shelled out for overnight accomodation.

Marty719

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2009, 15:18:23 PM »

ONLINE LEAGUE

Think the structure is spot on for a Sunday night $10 buy-in. Finish around midnight and the 2,500 starting stack does allow some play, it isn"t or shouldn"t be a deep deepstack tournament, thats what the nationals are for. Its a League and as such plays very well IMHO.
Like the idea of the three divisions (twice yearly) with the promotion and relegation. I guess the added value on offer will be higher in the top divison, therefore giving everyone something to strive for. The smaller clubs will need to do some building up, so prehaps they should ask Suzy from Bristol what the secret is!

NATIONALS

Like the idea of making a weekend of it. As someone who struggles to make a day two, something on the Sunday to make the expense of overnight accomodation seem worthwhile has to be good.

OTHER VARIANTS OF POKER

RAZZ (Thats all I have to say on the matter.) ;D


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Foggy

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2009, 15:37:11 PM »


NATIONALS

Like the idea of making a weekend of it. As someone who struggles to make a day two, something on the Sunday to make the expense of overnight accomodation seem worthwhile has to be good.


this definitely has mileage - 85% of the field don"t make day two, yet most will have shelled out for overnight accomodation.


This definately gets my vote.

I am against the 3 league system, as this years results favoured the larger teams, and if the this years results are to be taken to set up the system, there is definately some bias.One thing I would be in favour of is setting the intial tables up, so that team or multi team members are not sat at the same table. This would eleviate team tactics that were used during the matches. I would be against setting the leagues with forums as this would enable pot hunters to clan together (note-Scottish connection)

I agree that the GUKPT seat is  superb added value to the prizes, but if you are to compare iPoker, with the Pokerstars software we previous used, no contest!!


TopPair2Pair

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2009, 15:54:33 PM »
Loving the heads up championship suggestion, once a month would be great for the more fishier player like me... some form of individual league ranking would phenomenal. Mini festivals would be great over bank holiday weekends.

Lastly, I am absolutely devastated that Live Regionals may not come back - have been preparing to drive all the way up to DTD from Essex for each one of these bad boys since mid season 2, but wanted to play a full season before even considering dabbling in nationals, starting in season 3. sigh. FML.

I appreciate the control issues over them and that APAT has to be very protective of its image but they offer an alternative value to fresh faces then Nationals;

a) Great way for new players to Introduce themselves to APAT live play and its members over a prolonged period
b) An even better way for new players to see if we are good enough to rub shoulders with APAT regs in a live environment
c) Any amateur can fire up a poker room and learn the game but playing serious poker in a live environment against strong APAT standard players for £25ish is just an impossible thing to find in UK and this can only be offered by APAT imo.

I sincerely hope APAT finds a way to fill this void if Regionals do not come back.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 16:04:05 PM by TopPair2Pair »
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AMRN

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2009, 16:07:02 PM »
I dont think it"s just the control issues that made the Regionals a bad thing. There were ranking points associated with the Regional final tables - problem was that in some of the more remote locations, they may only have taken a field of 10-20.... so scoring ranking points was so much easier than in Regonals in the more populated areas that attracted fields of 70+.

I hope the regionals don"t come back - the online league concept has been so much better in S3.





TopPair2Pair

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2009, 16:16:49 PM »

I dont think it"s just the control issues that made the Regionals a bad thing. There were ranking points associated with the Regional final tables - problem was that in some of the more remote locations, they may only have taken a field of 10-20.... so scoring ranking points was so much easier than in Regonals in the more populated areas that attracted fields of 70+.

I hope the regionals don"t come back - the online league concept has been so much better in S3.

Didn"t know that, not too botherd if regionals specifically dont come back but just want the "live void" left by them filled. (over a prolonged period like nationals).
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MintTrav

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2009, 16:18:51 PM »


NATIONALS

Like the idea of making a weekend of it. As someone who struggles to make a day two, something on the Sunday to make the expense of overnight accomodation seem worthwhile has to be good.


this definitely has mileage - 85% of the field don"t make day two, yet most will have shelled out for overnight accomodation.


I agree. Something on Day 2 would be great idea for keeping the buzz going from the first day and preventing the ghost-town atmosphere. (Just don"t clash two major events such as the HORSE World and the ME World).
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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #73 on: November 06, 2009, 16:20:43 PM »



NATIONALS

Like the idea of making a weekend of it. As someone who struggles to make a day two, something on the Sunday to make the expense of overnight accomodation seem worthwhile has to be good.


this definitely has mileage - 85% of the field don"t make day two, yet most will have shelled out for overnight accomodation.


I agree. Something on Day 2 would be great idea for keeping the buzz going from the first day and preventing the ghost-town atmosphere. (Just don"t clash two major events such as the HORSE World and the ME World).


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Roscopiko

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Re: APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2009, 16:39:59 PM »
Des, can you explain what the thinking behind the regional teams is please? is there something your building towards or a specific reason that they were started? If so could the smaller teams not be combined so that there are x teams of roughly the same size and an even playing field for all?

Personally, and a bit embarrasingly really as I am captain of one, they have been a big negative for me on the season.  The number of times I came onto the forum to find 80+ new post of which 4 or 5 were not league updates or similar, kind of put me off coming on at all tbh.

I was also a big fan of the season 2 online games and rankings playing against the whole of APAT rather than a restricted group.

I do think the team thing works, as the previous posts show, if you are in one the bigger well supported teams but ultimately poker is an individual game so leaning the whole online season to team events seems like its more exclusive rather than inclusive for individuals to me.