APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion

[BOINGBLITZ]

At least the amount of discussion on this subject shows just how important APAT has become to all of us.
Guess I better give my opinions too then.

APAT was (I believe) started to give the recreational player the chance to play a great structure, which (IMO) a 10,000 chip / 45 minute clock gives you. The price of £75 also puts it in the price-range of most amateur players.
 To add any more to the buy-in would start to price it out of a lot of people"s range and why would we want to do that ?
When I started to play APAT in season one, £75 was easily the biggest buy-in that I had ever even thought of shelling out for, but it gave me the chance to have a go and as a result has helped to develop my game to a point where this season I have started to get results.
 Therefore, I say leave the National structures alone, although YES, please add an optional tourney for Day 2.

 As for Team Events.......a VERY contentious issue in which APAT will never please everyone.
I upset a few people earlier on this season with a few tongue-in-cheek comments about team selection criteria for the European Championship events, so it was rather ironic when I was later selected for a 4-man team that I am sure MANY people would love to be a part of.
 I have to say that when I sit down on November 19th as part of an ENGLAND team, I will be prouder than can be put into words. This will be something that nobody can ever take away from you and as a Patriotic Englishman, I want to thank APAT for affording me this opportunity.
 The teams were chosen by Daniel Phillips as a non-playing Captain and I know that he agonised long and hard over who to leave out but what method realistically WOULD be better than this method of selection ?
 I have seen mention of some APAT Champions being left out but if you get different winners of all the events, how can they all be selected when it is a 4-man team ?
 It"s a bit like running a pool team and saying "Lose 2 and you are out next week"....what happens if you lose 5-0 in successive weeks....drop the lot ?.....NO....the Captain still has to decide who to pick so I would say to you all....keep trying at both online and live events and if you do well enough, you WILL get noticed.

 The APAT forum team event is another "Can"t-please-everyone" issue so maybe the top 10 finishers this season and every year afterwards can be afforded the chance of automatic entry into the following year"s event. Then, set a date for an online qualifier and all the others can fight it out to qualify for the remaining places but with EQUAL amounts in each team, be it 8 or 10 or however many is decided on  (Unlike this season"s online league) That way, we all have the chance to get in.  I understand that online and live are different, but I would think that organising a live elimination event would not be practical.

As for adding additional events like Omaha / Omaha Hi-Lo... GO FOR IT !!   There are virtually no live tournaments to be found in the lesser disciplines for Amateurs so this would be a great addition.

 The Online League has been enjoyed by lots of people and I think that the idea of tiering the Divisions is a good one, though you must give bigger incentives to the higher Divisions to make Promotion / Relegation mean something.
 Setting a limit on players per team could be an idea too, say 10 per team, with the Captain selecting who plays. Any overspill could then play for a "B" team in the lower divisions. This would keep a level playing field, though of course, if players dropped out, then some teams would be at a disadvantage. But how else can you overcome this anyway ?
 The 2500 starting stack is pretty good and the 4-hour length ok too.

 As an additional incentive, maybe at the Worlds, a 32-man heads-up tourney would be great, comprising of all live champions, online champs, online league winners, etc...from next season....  I am sure you could find some way to get it to 32...... then put them into 8 groups of 4 on a round-robin basis, top player into Q-Finals from each group. This would be APAT"S own Champion Of Champions event with maybe a GUKPT seat at the end ?.

 Hope my views were worth the read....BOING BOING !!

[AMRN]

I also think that a lot of APAT members play within a bigger bankroll and are not as motivated to play a £75 deepstack over a long weekend, especially if it has been during a period of time when they may have played GUKPT or DTD deepstacks and fancy a weekend with the family. I dont agree that these players should not be allowed to represent their country or their forum, simply because they haven"t played many APAT events or have had their success at non APAT events.

I don"t follow your logic. If they are so important that the standard APAT events are beneath them or they can"t be bothered to play cos they want to be with their family, why should they leapfrog the people who attend all the APAT games to get a free pass into the team events?

because of this

the APAT community extends much further than the players who play in APAT comps.

I don"t know what this means. How does the "APAT community" include people who don"t play APAT events?
If four known names decide they want to play on the England team, would Redfern, Yates, etc would be shoved aside?

I have a personal interest in this one, so feel qualified to comment. The method for selecting players is always going to be one for debate, but more so for the home countries than anywhere else, and probably more so for England than the other home countries - simply due to sheer volume of players wanting a place.

As a member of APAT who relishes the Tour and the Association, and all that it offers and stands for, I would be peeved if selection of national teams was reduced to a simple selection based on Hendon Mob database rankings, rather than results and participation in APAT events.  I was lucky enough to be selected for England, but I know that there are many more players out there probably far better qualified than I (based on ability and earnings) - however I"ve had a good run on the APAT tour this season, have contributed to every single tournament both live and online, am leader of the live rankings, have made several day twos and several final tables, and based on all that feel that I deserved my place. If I had been overlooked in favour of someone who prefers to play higher profile events at the expense of APAT events, I would question whether the APAT ethos and spirit was being properly maintained.

I also think that a lot of APAT members play within a bigger bankroll and are not as motivated to play a £75 deepstack over a long weekend

......then perhaps APAT is not the Tour and Organisation for these people. I thought APAT was about affordable poker for amateur players. If people prefer to play DTD deepstacks and GUKPT (both of which are way beyond my bankroll, and the bankroll of many who play on the APAT tour) rather than play the lowly APAT Nationals, then they aren"t really fully participating in APAT - so not sure why they would be considered ahead of the more regular APATers.

[Mikeyboy9361]

I also think that a lot of APAT members play within a bigger bankroll and are not as motivated to play a £75 deepstack over a long weekend, especially if it has been during a period of time when they may have played GUKPT or DTD deepstacks and fancy a weekend with the family. I dont agree that these players should not be allowed to represent their country or their forum, simply because they haven"t played many APAT events or have had their success at non APAT events.

Well said that man.
I don"t follow your logic. If they are so important that the standard APAT events are beneath them or they can"t be bothered to play cos they want to be with their family, why should they leapfrog the people who attend all the APAT games to get a free pass into the team events?

because of this

the APAT community extends much further than the players who play in APAT comps.

I don"t know what this means. How does the "APAT community" include people who don"t play APAT events?
If four known names decide they want to play on the England team, would Redfern, Yates, etc would be shoved aside?

I have a personal interest in this one, so feel qualified to comment. The method for selecting players is always going to be one for debate, but more so for the home countries than anywhere else, and probably more so for England than the other home countries - simply due to sheer volume of players wanting a place.

As a member of APAT who relishes the Tour and the Association, and all that it offers and stands for, I would be peeved if selection of national teams was reduced to a simple selection based on Hendon Mob database rankings, rather than results and participation in APAT events.  I was lucky enough to be selected for England, but I know that there are many more players out there probably far better qualified than I (based on ability and earnings) - however I"ve had a good run on the APAT tour this season, have contributed to every single tournament both live and online, am leader of the live rankings, have made several day twos and several final tables, and based on all that feel that I deserved my place. If I had been overlooked in favour of someone who prefers to play higher profile events at the expense of APAT events, I would question whether the APAT ethos and spirit was being properly maintained.

I also think that a lot of APAT members play within a bigger bankroll and are not as motivated to play a £75 deepstack over a long weekend

......then perhaps APAT is not the Tour and Organisation for these people. I thought APAT was about affordable poker for amateur players. If people prefer to play DTD deepstacks and GUKPT (both of which are way beyond my bankroll, and the bankroll of many who play on the APAT tour) rather than play the lowly APAT Nationals, then they aren"t really fully participating in APAT - so not sure why they would be considered ahead of the more regular APATers.

[K3vl4rUK]

on the topic of more events is there any chance of maybe adding in a second event that is north of the border? Mainly because that is the best shot i have in playing the nationals becasue the likes of DTD cost me a fortune! lol

[mike saban]

My thoughts on ;

The Nationals

1) Choose locations that can host a minimum of 200 players.

2) (Re) Introduce regional live satellites for National games. No ranking points included, just a basic 1 seat per 1 apat national buyin taken.

This opens up APAT national qualification to others who may not be online and also spreads the world. Make it an affordable buyin ( eg £20 ) and have a team of regional reps ( as you did before ) who can play but also can report back on the results. All locations to run the same structure for these games.

Do this on the weekend before, the online sats

3) Keep the $20 online FO sat, this has proved to be quite popular

3) Do away with the $10 online FO sat. This produces the least amount of seats, so maybe make this into a $10 1 Rebuy 1 Add on game

5) Keep the $5 rebuy sat

6) Do away with the clickfest, seems to cause headaches for all concerned, either APAT team to manage, or APAT members trying to get in

7) Day after satellites have finished, opendirect buyin online on the website of the sponsor, people dont have to worry about transfering seats etc if their plans change, they can either unregister or register to their hearts content until the cap is reached. Close day or 2 before event

Remaining seats to be sold at the casino on day of national.

Assuming APAT and Bluesq/Grovensor maintain their relationship, all buyins are either paid through the casino or the online poker lobby. APAT management have 1 less headache of managing buyins.

9) Keep buyins and structures as they are if possible, thats already perfect.

Online National Events

1) Run more online satellites in the run up, have one every night the week before

2) Assuming that the relationship between APAT and BlueSq is maintained, and also assuming that Ipoker have developed their software to include other games than Omaha and Holdem, then the addition of HORSE sounds a good idea. Not sure about over a full weekend though, I think I prefer all on a single day, say an hours starting difference, numerous satellites for all of course.

Online League Events

1) Not sure there will be the interest for a div 2 and 3.

2) I know a lot of people kept away from this, this year due to problems between AOL and Ipoker platforms

[Jon MW]

...
6) Do away with the clickfest, seems to cause headaches for all concerned, either APAT team to manage, or APAT members trying to get in

7) Day after satellites have finished, opendirect buyin online on the website of the sponsor, people dont have to worry about transfering seats etc if their plans change, they can either unregister or register to their hearts content until the cap is reached. Close day or 2 before event

Remaining seats to be sold at the casino on day of national.

...

What difference do you think there is between 6 and 7?

7. is just a clickfest administered by the poker site - a site you"ve later said a number of people (AOL in particular) have difficulty accessing. So all those people who can"t access it, are out - all those people who don"t play online have to register an account and deposit money on a site they aren"t interested in - and all those people who don"t play online and don"t live near a casino that is capable of holding a regional live satellite (even if it were practicable to put this in place) are also excluded.

All those people who are excluded from the online option (now it"s restricted such as you"ve suggested) and who can get to a regional live satellite have a very slim chance of getting hold of the one or two (three at most) seats that would be available this way.

All in all - despite the odd problem with payment processing - I don"t think there"s any huge problem with the buy in process, and hence no pressing need to change it. As has been stated before - everybody who really wants to get a seat for any particular APAT National has been able to get one, if it isn"t broke - don"t fix it.

[AceOnTheRiver]

A few have mentioned this already but I would like to support the idea of a Sunday side-event as most people have travelled and 85% do not make day 2. Therefore we get more APAT Live Poker.

My suggestion would be a £25 F/O with a 7,500 stack and 30 min clock starting at 3.30pm assuming 2.30pm start in the ME. Registration is open from the start of ME Day 1 so that you can register immeadiately on busting out.

Looking forward to S4

[K3vl4rUK]

one other thing i would like to ask is if we are going to be going back to the maybury? coz if we are i want a better buffet or i will bring my own! lol

[AMRN]

one other thing i would like to ask is if we are going to be going back to the maybury? coz if we are i want a better buffet or i will bring up my own! lol

FYP

[pables]

A few have mentioned this already but I would like to support the idea of a Sunday side-event as most people have travelled and 85% do not make day 2. Therefore we get more APAT Live Poker.

My suggestion would be a £25 F/O with a 7,500 stack and 30 min clock starting at 3.30pm assuming 2.30pm start in the ME. Registration is open from the start of ME Day 1 so that you can register immeadiately on busting out.

Looking forward to S4

THIS!

I like the idea of ironing out another dollar. Good idea!!

[TightEnd]

My thoughts on ;

The Nationals

1) Choose locations that can host a minimum of 200 players.

It"s easier said than done, APAT has always been restricted by venue capacity in the UK, except on the few occasions where we have done multiple Day 1s, which with volunteers running them isn"t always easy.

Things are getting a bit eaiser on the capacity front, as the new G"s for example are a lot bigger than the old Grosvenor"s but you get my point

[mike saban]

Appreciate the point on the location, maybe you and Grovensor could take a leaf out of the EPT"s book and commandeer a decent size hotel"s function room for the weekend   ( is this the tongue in cheek smiley ? )

Jon - with regards points 6 & 7, I see this running quite successfully on capped competitions by Europe"s premier cardroom. its another option and does give the flexibility of unregistering if plans change. However I accept your point regarding the access problems.

I disagree with the numbers you suggest that would gain entry by live satellites. If the price was £20 buyin, your looking at 1 in 4 winning a seat, based on the numbers that were regularly turning out for the regional"s in S2, I would suggest that you would be looking at potentially upto 25% of the national seats being won in this way.

Also I add my support to the suggestion about a Sunday 1 day tournament, I think this is a cracking idea and would be a success.

[APAT]

Thanks for all of the feedback so far everyone, we"re intently listening.  Some of these suggestions may have sponsor / financial considerations, please keep that in the back of your mind.  

[Glorious]

A few have mentioned this already but I would like to support the idea of a Sunday side-event as most people have travelled and 85% do not make day 2. Therefore we get more APAT Live Poker.

My suggestion would be a £25 F/O with a 7,500 stack and 30 min clock starting at 3.30pm assuming 2.30pm start in the ME. Registration is open from the start of ME Day 1 so that you can register immeadiately on busting out.

Looking forward to S4

Great idea.

[TightEnd]

Also I add my support to the suggestion about a Sunday 1 day tournament, I think this is a cracking idea and would be a success.

fwiw, I agree. Des, I and the team will discuss it. Soon.