APAT Season Four - Pre Launch Discussion

[Paulie_D]

Good post ^^^^^^^^

Thanks..I worked hard on it. I have some sympathy with some of the comments that have been made but we haven"t even held the fist event yet. Let"s do that and then bitch and moan some more.

I KNOW Des and Richard (and the others) take everything we say into account when planning an extensive season of poker across the UK and Europe. They know they can"t please everyone but, unfortunately all too often, it seems that the fault-finding outweighs the appreciation they should be getting.

[SirPercival]

Good post ^^^^^^^^

Thanks..I worked hard on it. I have some sympathy with some of the comments that have been made but we haven"t even held the fist event yet. Let"s do that and then bitch and moan some more.

I KNOW Des and Richard (and the others) take everything we say into account when planning an extensive season of poker across the UK and Europe. They know they can"t please everyone but, unfortunately all too often, it seems that the fault-finding outweighs the appreciation they should be getting.

even better post ^^^^^^^^  

[Waz1892]

They know they can"t please everyone but, unfortunately all too often, it seems that the fault-finding outweighs the appreciation they should be getting.

Not sure I agree with this statement.

It is a shame that majority of players within the APAT lose out in terms of number of seats for the Live events, for a "whatever you want to call it" higher stakes tournament, especially as previously stated there is events out there for the buy in.

But it is I guess one-man"s £500 is another mans £50, just I think imho more have £50 than £500 to spend on a weekend.

I understand the need to look at the bigger picture...maybe this could be shared with the membership, we could understand the journey we are all on?

[RioRodent]

Good post ^^^^^^^^

Thanks..I worked hard on it. I have some sympathy with some of the comments that have been made but we haven"t even held the fist event yet. Let"s do that and then bitch and moan some more.

I KNOW Des and Richard (and the others) take everything we say into account when planning an extensive season of poker across the UK and Europe. They know they can"t please everyone but, unfortunately all too often, it seems that the fault-finding outweighs the appreciation they should be getting.

I"m sorry if you see it as bitching and moaning, however I reserve my right to express my opinion and question why such a proposal might not have been put up for discussion, in a thread started by APAT expressly for the purpose of discussing proposals for season 4.

[Paulie_D]

I"m sorry if you see it as bitching and moaning, however I reserve my right to express my opinion and question why such a proposal might not have been put up for discussion, in a thread started by APAT expressly for the purpose of discussing proposals for season 4.

You reserved it allright Alan, for 45 pages you reserved it. I looked and couldn"t find any contribution from you whatsoever.

For the record...I didn"t get involved either...and that"s my bad luck.

This thread wasn"t for APAT to suggest things and for us to shoot them down, it was for us to say what we would like to see in S4.

This thread can be used for APAT members and management to discuss potential developments ahead of the finalisation of Season Four.  If there is something you would like to see in the new season, please make your suggestions here.

There were, in fact, a couple of people who indicated that they would like to see higher buy-in tournaments...I admit that I"ve clipped a bit here and I hope I"m not taking anyone"s comments out of context..

I also think that a lot of APAT members play within a bigger bankroll and are not as motivated to play a £75 deepstack over a long weekend, especially if it has been during a period of time when they may have played GUKPT or DTD deepstacks and fancy a weekend with the family.

The question of those with bigger bankrolls is interesting - is there scope for some higher buy in events which would bring these players more into the centre of the APAT. I would be very keen to qualify for/play in these were they ran?

My general feel on the APAT events is that the spirit is better than other comps - so other things equal I would prefer to play a £200 freezeout run by APAT than a side event in some other festival.

So...having actually spoken to more members than anyone else, the management said..

Many APAT players have come of age through playing affordable multi day tournaments with us over the last four years.  We feel the time is right to offer those players an opportunity to step up with the introduction of the APAT Professional League.  With the outstanding prizes on offer, this is certain to attract some strong professional players and our existing players will learn more quickly playing alongside them.  We look forward to charting your continuing success.

Des Duffy
Managing Director
Amateur Poker Association & Tour.

Many, many people requested a Sunday comp, and most requested it not be Hold'em...job done.

Do I agree with reducing the number of seats in Saturday"s £75 comp for the Pro Series...No, I had my say and got an answer. I"ll let things play out.

Unfortunately, you appear to be outside the tent pi**ing in on this one.

[RioRodent]

I do apologise, but as the general view is that there have never been enough seats available and that there have been suggestions for ways to increase the number, I didn"t feel it would be necessary to ask that the number of seats was not reduced. My bad for not being clairvoyant I guess?

This thread wasn"t for APAT to suggest things

Why not?

and for us to shoot them down

I don"t like the "shoot them down phrase", but there is nothing wrong with disagreeing and conducting a reasoned debate.

As I said I hadn"t re-read the whole thread, but two posts in 46 pages is hardly overwhelming support.

Unfortunately, you appear to be outside the tent pi**ing in on this one.

Wouldn"t be the first time... of course it could be that I"m the only one asking, what many people are thinking?

And I would just like to reiterate...

... I congratulate all at APAT for everything else that they have delivered for Season 4 and thank them for all the hard work they do on our behalf...

[AMRN]

Whether it should be called the "Pro" series is arguable, but it rolls of tongue better than "The Higher Priced APAT Tourney"....and it allows "true" pros to be brought further into the fold.

Not voicing an opinion either way on this one (I do have an opinion, but it"s irrelevant).  Just wanted to comment on post above.... I"m not sure how many "true pros" would pitch up for a 50 seat £250 buy in tourney.

I suspect the £250 events won"t sell out, and that a number of seats will be cut over to the £75 event. That will be the telling sign that either proves or disproves this debate.

[MintTrav]

I"m not keen on the way this thread is turning. In particular, Paulie"s posts last night are very harsh and a bit OTT.

Des has made it clear that he felt there was demand from within the existing membership for a higher entry comp. Perhaps they didn"t put down in writing in the forums but I"m not going to call the man a liar.

we haven"t even held the fist event yet. Let"s do that and then bitch and moan some more.

unfortunately all too often, it seems that the fault-finding outweighs the appreciation they should be getting.

This thread wasn"t for APAT to suggest things and for us to shoot them down,

You reserved it allright Alan, for 45 pages you reserved it. I looked and couldn"t find any contribution from you whatsoever.

Unfortunately, you appear to be outside the tent pi**ing in on this one.

This thread is for the members to make suggestions. I think they have all been intended as positive contributions. Some have expressed disagreement with certain aspects of the tour since publication but I think all of those contributions have been made from a positive viewpoint to help make the APAT package the best it can be. Calling them "bitching and moaning" and "fault-finding" is not helpful. To paraphrase yourself, the thread isn"t for the membership to suggest things and you to shoot them down, either. Also, I"m not aware that anyone has called Des a liar and I can"t imagine anyone doing so.

You have been particularly harsh on Rio and I think his response is quite restrained after the way you attacked him. He and I don"t always agree on things but I"m with him on this. Not commenting pre-publication doesn"t preclude him from doing so when the details are known. The format of the Pro tour is not something that any of us foresaw so how could it be commented on beforehand?

Reservations on certain points doesn"t mean that people don"t appreciate the overall package. As I said, I think all suggestions/reservations have been made with a view to being helpful, so all-in-all, a bit less aggression and a bit more understanding of members" genuine suggestions would be appreciated.

[Chipaccrual]

Nice post John.

[SirPercival]

Nice post John.

+1

[Ant1966]

yeah, nice post.

[cincicrappykid]

ahahhaahha nice one Ant took me a while to focus but got it in the end

[WarBwastardo]

How to put an end to relatively constructive thread in three easy posts.  I"ve spent a lot of time with Rio and have learnt over the years to distinguish between bitching and moaning ..."YOU F***KING CALLED ME DOWN WITH THAT!!"...and constructive criticism.."OK take it down I was bluffing, but I think it"s a bad call even though your Queen high is good as i"d play the hand the same way with Aces.," ...and I think his post was constructive rather than bitching and moaning.

A pro league is a fair enough idea if it could have been held as an addition to the usual 200 runner Nationals that have been so popular over the past three seasons, but obviously that has not been possible.  To have to reduce the Nationals but such a huge percentage to shoe horn the Pro League into the season seems at odds with the general consensus on where the tour should be going...at least from what is said on the forums.

There seemed to be so much talk last season about whether 2 days 1"s were possible.  Now it seems with 100 runners, we barely need a day 2.  I hope I"m wrong and only time will tell of course, but either way it"s a reasonable enough opinion to wonder if this has been a mistake and not bitching.

I had something else to say then, but my crumpets were burning, now I"ve forgotten.  So there.

[AMRN]

Spot on John!  

(FFS What"s the world coming to? I liked John"s post!!)

[Paulie_D]

I"m not keen on the way this thread is turning. In particular, Paulie"s posts last night are very harsh and a bit OTT.

I"m sorry that you feel that my comments were harsh and, on re-reading them, I can see that I have over-reacted to what I perceived as yet another slam against some aspects of S4.

I apologise to Alan for making him the target of my response. It was undeserved.

My opinions about the Pro Series are generally in line with the consensus seen here but many of the comments that I have seen in this thread and others implied that Des and APAT were, at best, incompetent in introducing the Pro Series without any requirement from the membership.

I don"t believe that and I don"t think any of us do either.

Regardless, I over-reacted and my words were poorly chosen.