Biggish early hand at Euro's - thoughts please?

[noble1]

if the german had a draw and having seen the action would he rr the amount he did with KTo or 9To not likely imo KTdd is out the window as we have the , 9Tdd is possible but most would flat given the action ahead and its hard to say with little info that he would play 9Tdd fast like this. So thats 1 combo from his entire range that i"d put in as drawing hand....

[Marty719]

if the german had a draw and having seen the action would he rr the amount he did with KTo or 9To not likely imo KTdd is out the window as we have the , 9Tdd is possible but most would flat given the action ahead and its hard to say with little info that he would play 9Tdd fast like this. So thats 1 combo from his entire range that i"d put in as drawing hand....

7d8d 6d7d 8d10d 9d10d QQ JJ 77 AQ QJ and a small amount of air can b his 3-betting range depending on levels of aggression and how competant he views kinboshi and foggy (obv v competant but seems he has very basic views at this early stage). 

Assuming he never folds QQ JJ 77
Assuming he 100% always folds AQ
Assuming he folds QJ some of the time
Assuming he folds 7dXd draws most of the time but stacks off w/ 9d10d a reasonable amount of the time
Obv folds his small % of air hands all the time

[deanp27]

i don"t think the German would (should) 3bet/fold combos 7dxd or top 2(QJ) here but obv i may be wrong

[noble1]

i disagree with that range marty , we have no read or showdowns to go by to assume he has such a wide range, the default imo is to assume he is strong till proven otherwise, the bet pattern suggests it..
If boshi was to assume everyone super wide in all future 3betted flops then i for one would not be looking to bankroll him if in all mtt 1st levels he was 4bet shoving basically blind over them,he"d bleed me dry lol  
Why are some still advocating that he is 3betting super light here is beyond me with NO read , we need to move on and see if there are merits in calling or folding...

[Marty719]

i don"t think the German would (should) 3bet/fold combos 7dxd or top 2(QJ) here but obv i may be wrong

I dnt think he shud 3bet -Xd either.  Dnt h8 3-betting QJ in villains spot, but def folding it to a 4-bet from a good player at this stage.  Just putting an example of a wider range an uber-aggro villain may 3-bet w/.

i disagree with that range marty , we have no read or showdowns to go by to assume he has such a wide range, the default imo is to assume he is strong till proven otherwise, the bet pattern suggests it..
If boshi was to assume everyone super wide in all future 3betted flops then i for one would not be looking to bankroll him if in all mtt 1st levels he was 4bet shoving basically blind over them,he"d bleed me dry lol  
Why are some still advocating that he is 3betting super light here is beyond me with NO read , we need to move on and see if there are merits in calling or folding...

Im just saying...the only information we have is that villain is a capable aggro opponent so I dnt think his entire range has to b QQ JJ 77 QJ.  " Got a player two to my right who is very aggressive (played in the German team), and he seems to be enjoying himself."


Y do u advocate flat calling this flop?  I really am curious about this as I cannot see anything good with it.

I dnt think folding is bad at all!!  I just think shoving is better, due to the fact that I still believe we have f/e.

[kinboshi]

i disagree with that range marty , we have no read or showdowns to go by to assume he has such a wide range, the default imo is to assume he is strong till proven otherwise, the bet pattern suggests it..
If boshi was to assume everyone super wide in all future 3betted flops then i for one would not be looking to bankroll him if in all mtt 1st levels he was 4bet shoving basically blind over them,he"d bleed me dry lol  
Why are some still advocating that he is 3betting super light here is beyond me with NO read , we need to move on and see if there are merits in calling or folding...

I don"t assume everyone"s super-wide in all 3-bet flops.  So you want to stake me?

[noble1]

i"ll wait for result dan ty lmao  

[Marty719]

i"ll wait for result dan ty lmao  

Having said tht - lets get sum more posts out here b4 results so we can have sum gd unbiased discussion of:

shoving>folding>calling

or

calling>folding>shoving

^^Think they r the only 2 arguments so far, but we may get sum differing 1s yet.

[deanp27]

i am surprised that none of the AK cliches have come out yet. It is only ace hi after all etc...

[kinboshi]

i am surprised that none of the AK cliches have come out yet. It is only ace hi after all etc...

It was just a-high, but I had a Royal Flush draw

[mousebob]

With all this "thinking" someone may have to put the clock on!
How long did the REAL decision take?

[Marty719]

With all this "thinking" someone may have to put the clock on!
How long did the REAL decision take?

Il set the line at 7.324seconds

[kinboshi]

Decision took about 2 minutes.

The reason we talk about these situations for hours on end is so that it"s easier to make a decision at the table in "real-time".

Also worth remembering, I had a Royal Flush draw.

[AMRN]

Dan - did you, by any chance, have a draw for anything, like say perhaps maybe, a royal flush?

[mousebob]

Online 20 seconds ......... no wonder we sometimes get it wrong!

No-one can fold a ROYAL FLUSH draw (online!!).

Did YOU have a royal flush draw?? We need to know.