Latter Stages again!!

[Mikeyboy9361]

Having been roundly chastised for my play in the latter stages last week, I thought I would post a hand I was involved in last night and get your thoughts.

4K gteed, $20 freezeout, 300 Runners, top 30 paid, decent money for top 5, me 13/20, already got $54 locked up! CL 50k, average about 20K,  me 14k, Blinds 800/1600/100.

CL is on my table and has been extremely active raising probably 60% of all pots and bullying good style! I am in the SB having just re raised in the BB to take a decent pot uncontested from the guy who is now on the button.

So blinds 800/1600 with 100 ante, CL,  UG raises to 5200, folded round to the Button who shoves for his last 10K, I look down in the SB at Pocket tens.

What do you do?

[deanp27]

i"d prolly jam it in

[Eck]

Pretty ugly spot imo you will probably get CL involved as well so will need to run good but I think I am too short here to pass TT so I shove most times.

If i have more chips (nearer to 20 than 10 BB"s) I could probably find a fold would be expecting to bust tbh but need to take the chance I think.

[Marty719]

Yea Im putting it in all day here.  8x w/ 18k already in the pot.  C/l clearly has a wide range, and button is putting it in w/ any pp, any Ax hand, and all paint combos.  Getting it in and putting myself in a gd spot to get a gd score if it works out.

If i have more chips (nearer to 20 than 10 BB"s) I could probably find a fold would be expecting to bust tbh but need to take the chance I think.

If I have 20x, I still think Im re-shoving here to iso the button as we are ahead of his range.

[shozboy1]

The button must know he"s getting called by the UTG raiser. You wouldn"t expect him to be shoving a very wide range here given this fact, but also, that he"s on the button and he could wait for another orbit to find a decent enough hand -basically I can"t see him shoving trash here. Your probably flipping at best with him. Additionally, I know UTG has been very active, but what"s his opening range been from this specific position? Has he been stealing alot from late position generally, and tighter UTG?

All in all its unlikely you"ll be ahead of both players, and you shoving less than 10BBs is not going to encourage the UTG raiser to fold and allow you to isolate the button - he will have compelling pot odds to call here and given how loose he is he"s even more likely to call. Against 2 players in this situation, I don"t fancy 1010 being the best hand at showdown.

Do we expect to get knocked out here more often then tripling up (near enough)? I think so, I"d move towards folding, but its close

[Eck]

If i have more chips (nearer to 20 than 10 BB"s) I could probably find a fold would be expecting to bust tbh but need to take the chance I think.

If I have 20x, I still think Im re-shoving here to iso the button as we are ahead of his range.

Yeah prob agree with that tbh if CL has been pretty active.

[Marty719]

The button must know he"s getting called by the UTG raiser. You wouldn"t expect him to be shoving a very wide range here given this fact, but also, that he"s on the button and he could wait for another orbit to find a decent enough hand -basically I can"t see him shoving trash here. Your probably flipping at best with him.

With 6x, running antes, and an aggro table bully, I expect him to be 3-bet shoving 22-AA, A2+, any paint combo"s.  Im pretty sure 10"s r ahead of his range.  

[noble1]

not a super spot mikey especially with everyone so shallow , i"d lean towards going for a triple up here , u havent got a stack to work with at the moment and it"ll only get worse.
The buttons range i cant see being wide myself [as u have not mentioned any reads on him] i"ll asume he has waited a little bit to long for a decent hand so i would put him on at least 88+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+ the BB going by what u said i put him on summat like 77+,A9s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QJo which means that it is gambling time for u..

[AMRN]

too much value here to avoid playing the fifth best starting hand

[deanp27]

Ok i"ll try and break this down. In the absence of a HH i assume we are 6/7 handed with 20 left and that only money worth playing for is on the FT and probably in the top 3/4 spots.

You say UTG is a big CL and is liberal in opening (from any position i assume being short handed) - i don"t know how big his stack is. We have no real reads on button, other than he will have same feelings towards CL as you.

Options

Fold - we get to see what cards they are playing for curiosity purposes (pretty sure CL can"t fold) but we are left with a short stack with big CL two to our left, so very little FE and miles away from decent money - we will have to get lucky

Shove and CL folds (which is unlikely but i never rule anything out in these) - we are therefore in decent shape HU against a reasonable range, possibly flipping but there is a tonne of dead money in the pot from UTG and blinds. Therefore we are likely to be getting huge odds with 4k left over if we lose for hope value.

Shove and CL calls - as above but we are obviously 3 way and CL range is still quite wide. We have an 8k side pot vs CL range as an insurance policy if we don"t win the 3 way all-in coup.


i like playing for bigger money rather than scraping into the cash relying on picking up QQ+ when i have 3bbs. I think this is a reasonable spot.

[deanp27]

too much value here to avoid playing the fifth best starting hand

technically speaking vs a range of hands it would be argued that AK is a stronger hand than tens

[noble1]

too much value here to avoid playing the fifth best starting hand

technically speaking vs a range of hands it would be argued that AK is a stronger hand than tens

AKo +2% AKs +5%

[Marty719]

i would put him on at least 88+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+

With 6x and a running ante, it this is his entire range, he shud be lynched!

[SirPercival]

Depends on your attitude to the prize money IMO. You are going to be looking at a gamble most of the time so are you willing to risk the difference in prize money between going out now against a possibility of laddering a few places or better?

You have the button next hand. Stealing the odd blinds and getting your chips in first putting others to the test is an option to ladder a few places and gives potential for a better spot to double up. With a 3 way pot there are more potential overcards that could bust you. Why is the button putting his tournament at risk when he could wait a few hands? His range (given the limited information available) is going to include any pair, possibly any Ace, and any 2 paint. CL must call and from what you say could have ATC but being UTG might narrow that a bit.

For example, if cl has ATC with 1 overcard, say  kh and button has my favorite hand  ah jc you are winning 42% of the time giving you a stack of 40k.

I was in a very similar situation during my WSOP event in 2006 (400 out of 2800 left, 280 paid) I pushed with my and was against QQ and AK - fml  

[LongshanksED]

This stage in tourney and with your stack I"d make a crying fold.  not happy about it but Their will be other spots. Your probably facing 2overcards from one and probably Another pair lower than yours but JJ is a possibility.   If your up against 4 overcards then there"s a good chance your going out.

Early stages of a tourney it"s an easy fold also