Tonight's live game. (Hand Two)

[jlane1980]

Hand Two,
Straight after the previous hand.  And, it so happens, the final hand of my night.

Blinds have increased 400/800.

I have about 11500.  UTG+2 Has 16000.  Button has 1600.

UTG +2 raises to 1600, Button pushes remaining 1600, i look down at  kh ks.  I decide to reraise, at this point i"m happy to take the pot, and not have a big stack playing post flop with position on me.  I raise to 4000.  UTG+2, to my annoyance, flat calls.

Question.  Should i have raised more, or pushed?

Flop -
qc ::

With an overpair,  I decide to push.  He insta-calls, turns pocket 7"s to show a flopped set, no kings to come, Game over me.  Button has  ad , for nothing.

Question.  Should i have checked post flop to see his actions?

[AMRN]

Not much you can do about this. You"ve actually played it in a trappy way by pricing the guy in with your smallish preflop raise..... there"s no way you can ever get away from the flop. cooler.

I would have shoved preflop - your raise to 4000 was irrelevant.... it left you pot committed and your stack"s going in.

Re your final question - even if you had checked to see his action, and he lead out, you are still never folding.... so no difference.

It doesn"t really matter how you played this hand pre or post flop - the chips were all going in and you were destined to lose.

[hi_am_chris]

Agree again, im shoving pre. you say to your annoyance he called but the raise you made invited him in. Having said that he shouldnt be set mining with the way the blinds and stacks are so his play isnt great. You got unlucky but i think its better to get it in pre.

[LongshanksED]

You shove pre IMO.

There"s a good section I"m currently Reading in harringtons cash game book showing odds of winning in multi player pots. Aces against 2 other random hands are usually no better than 55% -60% chance to win

kings is a hand I will always re raise big or shove try to isolate with. Your shove may get the other to fold pre flop

as played there"s nothing wrong with how it played out. As amrn said. It wouldve all went in at some point

[jlane1980]

To be honest, pushing didn"t even cross my mind.  If I had pushed pre, i"m not sure he would have called!

[LongshanksED]

How many Players left before the hand started. Close to the bubble or way off?

Also with the 3rd player all in you and utg player couldve checked it down to strengthen your chances of eliminating him but I"d imagine villian wouldve made a value bet on the turn or river to try and extract a bit more

[hi_am_chris]

Why would you want to be checking Kings down on a Q72 flop?

[MintTrav]

pricing the guy in with your smallish preflop raise

Em.................that"s what we want, is it not?
Why does everyone want to force a fold when we"re holding Kings?

[TheSnapper]

all in preflop is best and its not close. Pot is 4400 you have 14 BB"s a monster hand and even if utg+2 folds you increase your stack by 38%

Nonetheless utg+2 has played the hand awfully, he"s called off quarter of his stack oop with little chance to improve and will have to fold most flops with a stack to pot ratio of 1.2:1 and catches a miracle 8/1 shot  

[WYoung83]

cooler, the guy with 77s didnt get enough value from flopping a set, you were so short stacked anyway with 15 BBs (or whatever it was) that he didnt get paid enough for his 7-1 shot....

but with KK i think you should just of shoved pre. Isolate is the nuts somtimes.

[stoneii]

Em.................that"s what we want, is it not?
Why does everyone want to force a fold when we"re holding Kings?

^^^^^ This in spades - thank god it"s not just me - I ALWAYS want a 4-1 dog hand to call me pre - if he hits - curse the poker gods and not your play - the play is perfect if you get an opponent to call as such a dog - surely anything else is results orientated poker advice!!

[LongshanksED]

Because kings is a strong hand it"s not unbeatable as shown. And in a 3 way pot kings will only win around 60% of the time against 2 random hands. You get utg player to fold then yours odds go up to 80% to win. I"m happy to shove to isolate. That"s why when you watch the good players they raise with aces to isolate. Not just to get more chips in the pot. They know more players in the pot = less chance of winning

[MintTrav]

Because kings is a strong hand it"s not unbeatable as shown. And in a 3 way pot kings will only win around 60% of the time against 2 random hands. You get utg player to fold then yours odds go up to 80% to win. I"m happy to shove to isolate. That"s why when you watch the good players they raise with aces to isolate. Not just to get more chips in the pot. They know more players in the pot = less chance of winning

That"s pretty conservative. I"d isolate with a weaker hand but don"t we need to take some risks if we want to build our stack? The odds are still strongly in our favour. People don"t want to take this risk but they will happily take on races that are close to 50/50.

If you want to shove pre, what is the objective of your bet? Would you like him to call or fold? I bet you don"t all give the same answer.

[jlane1980]

How many Players left before the hand started. Close to the bubble or way off?

Also with the 3rd player all in you and utg player couldve checked it down to strengthen your chances of eliminating him but I"d imagine villian wouldve made a value bet on the turn or river to try and extract a bit more

Still another 3 tables remaining, cash on the final table.

[Mikeyboy9361]

I agree with John here, I think the raise is fine, with Kings I would want a caller. Then on that flop I would be pushing, its just a cooler. Bad luck.