OPINIONS ON SHOWING CARDS

[MintTrav]

Collusion, collusion collusion. All this talk about collusion. You might see it on telly but how often have you caught someone colluding in a live public cardroom? Never? All this talk about something that virtually never happens.

You never seen two players check it down when a third player is all-in? Nine times out of ten this is collusion.

You gonna try to get them thrown out for that? Okay it is collusion, but not the type we are talking about here.

[MintTrav]

As I said, if I choose not to show (and if called I always do) and someone wants to see my hand the conversation will go...

V. I want to see that hand
Me. "Why? Do you think I"m cheating?"
V. No, I just want to see what you had.
Me. FLOOR!

Love it. I can"t wait to see this. If I get the chance I"m definitely gonna ask to see them (especially if I"m not still in the hand) just so I can watch the show.

[RioRodent]

Collusion, collusion collusion. All this talk about collusion. You might see it on telly but how often have you caught someone colluding in a live public cardroom? Never? All this talk about something that virtually never happens.

You never seen two players check it down when a third player is all-in? Nine times out of ten this is collusion.

You gonna try to get them thrown out for that? Okay it is collusion, but not the type we are talking about here.

Just saying... that"s all.

P E Dant

[Paulie_D]

As I said, if I choose not to show (and if called I always do) and someone wants to see my hand the conversation will go...

V. I want to see that hand
Me. "Why? Do you think I"m cheating?"
V. No, I just want to see what you had.
Me. FLOOR!

Love it. I can"t wait to see this. If I get the chance I"m definitely gonna ask to see them (especially if I"m not still in the hand) just so I can watch the show.

You could but, unfortunately for you, I always turn my hand over at showdown. I"m not afraid of showing my hands...what information you might get from seeing them is not likely to be of any use.

[Marty719]

As I said, if I choose not to show (and if called I always do) and someone wants to see my hand the conversation will go...

V. I want to see that hand
Me. "Why? Do you think I"m cheating?"
V. No, I just want to see what you had.
Me. FLOOR!

Love it. I can"t wait to see this. If I get the chance I"m definitely gonna ask to see them (especially if I"m not still in the hand) just so I can watch the show.

[  ] This makes u sound like a swell guy...........

[MintTrav]

As I said, if I choose not to show (and if called I always do) and someone wants to see my hand the conversation will go...

V. I want to see that hand
Me. "Why? Do you think I"m cheating?"
V. No, I just want to see what you had.
Me. FLOOR!

Love it. I can"t wait to see this. If I get the chance I"m definitely gonna ask to see them (especially if I"m not still in the hand) just so I can watch the show.

[  ] This makes u sound like a swell guy...........

Wow, didn"t expect that. I think you"ve crossed a line here - I"ve never seen a post like that on this forum.

[Marty719]

Dnt worry...it"s not against the rules...just bad etiquette...

[Paulie_D]

Dnt worry...it"s not against the rules...just bad etiquette...

[RioRodent]

I have no shame in asking to see your cards.

If I am sat at your table, and you are constantly raising, or overbetting flops to take down a hand, I am wondering what are you doing it with. If someone calls you down and you muck with lots of good cards on board, I am going to ask to see the cards..  Its information..  It is also a way of curtailing the serial raiser if he has just had to show a load of rubbish..  If there isn"t an obvious serial raiser, I will not be asking to see cards.

None of my reason for asking to see is anything to do with collusion.

In a similar situation, if I have taken a risk to call down a serial raiser, and I call after the river, too many times, serial raiser wants to see my cards first.  He aint gonna see them first.  If it is just a std player, and I think I am good, I will show first and let him muck.

It all depends how you are playing against me.  I MAY actually be just taking one for the table if I have chips...

Carl.

If someone is "constantly raising", clearly much of the time they are doing it with less than premium hands.

"If someone calls you down and you muck with lots of good cards on board", clearly this was one of those occaisions.

I see no need to ask to see their cards to work this out.

[APAT]

I have no shame in asking to see your cards.

If I am sat at your table, and you are constantly raising, or overbetting flops to take down a hand, I am wondering what are you doing it with. If someone calls you down and you muck with lots of good cards on board, I am going to ask to see the cards..  Its information..  It is also a way of curtailing the serial raiser if he has just had to show a load of rubbish..  If there isn"t an obvious serial raiser, I will not be asking to see cards.

None of my reason for asking to see is anything to do with collusion.

In a similar situation, if I have taken a risk to call down a serial raiser, and I call after the river, too many times, serial raiser wants to see my cards first.  He aint gonna see them first.  If it is just a std player, and I think I am good, I will show first and let him muck.

It all depends how you are playing against me.  I MAY actually be just taking one for the table if I have chips...

Carl.

If someone is "constantly raising", clearly much of the time they are doing it with less than premium hands.

"If someone calls you down and you muck with lots of good cards on board", clearly this was one of those occaisions.

I see no need to ask to see their cards to work this out.

Agree.

[MintTrav]

Dnt worry...it"s not against the rules...just bad etiquette...

[rivertaff]

I have no shame in asking to see your cards.

If I am sat at your table, and you are constantly raising, or overbetting flops to take down a hand, I am wondering what are you doing it with. If someone calls you down and you muck with lots of good cards on board, I am going to ask to see the cards..  Its information..  It is also a way of curtailing the serial raiser if he has just had to show a load of rubbish..  If there isn"t an obvious serial raiser, I will not be asking to see cards.

None of my reason for asking to see is anything to do with collusion.

In a similar situation, if I have taken a risk to call down a serial raiser, and I call after the river, too many times, serial raiser wants to see my cards first.  He aint gonna see them first.  If it is just a std player, and I think I am good, I will show first and let him muck.

It all depends how you are playing against me.  I MAY actually be just taking one for the table if I have chips...

Carl.

If someone is "constantly raising", clearly much of the time they are doing it with less than premium hands.

"If someone calls you down and you muck with lots of good cards on board", clearly this was one of those occaisions.

I see no need to ask to see their cards to work this out.

Agree.

So, if Pauline gets called on the river, refuses to show, and calls the floor what will be the outcome?

Is there an absolute rule or will it vary casino to casino or is there an APAT ruling?

[RioRodent]

I have no shame in asking to see your cards.

If I am sat at your table, and you are constantly raising, or overbetting flops to take down a hand, I am wondering what are you doing it with. If someone calls you down and you muck with lots of good cards on board, I am going to ask to see the cards..  Its information..  It is also a way of curtailing the serial raiser if he has just had to show a load of rubbish..  If there isn"t an obvious serial raiser, I will not be asking to see cards.

None of my reason for asking to see is anything to do with collusion.

In a similar situation, if I have taken a risk to call down a serial raiser, and I call after the river, too many times, serial raiser wants to see my cards first.  He aint gonna see them first.  If it is just a std player, and I think I am good, I will show first and let him muck.

It all depends how you are playing against me.  I MAY actually be just taking one for the table if I have chips...

Carl.

If someone is "constantly raising", clearly much of the time they are doing it with less than premium hands.

"If someone calls you down and you muck with lots of good cards on board", clearly this was one of those occaisions.

I see no need to ask to see their cards to work this out.

Agree.

So, if Pauline gets called on the river, refuses to show, and calls the floor what will be the outcome?

Is there an absolute rule or will it vary casino to casino or is there an APAT ruling?

All we need is everyone to act like grown-ups... accept that virtually all of the rules of poker are there to protect YOU from possible cheating... NOT for you to use as stick to beat someone with, whether they be serial raiser or newcomer who has never even heard of a "String Bet."

Just "man up"... if you think someone is cheating and chip dumping, call them out, ask to see their mucked hands... if you think someone is raising too much, play back at them!!  Seeemplz  

[Paulie_D]

So, if Pauline gets called on the river, refuses to show, and calls the floor what will be the outcome?

Is there an absolute rule or will it vary casino to casino or is there an APAT ruling?

Firstly, I forget [mod edit].

Secondly, the APAT tourneys are played under APAT rules and no-one elses.

Thirdly, there is no SPECIFIC rule (AFAIK) in the APAT rules about players being able to ask to see another players hand.

Fourthly, if (and it wouldn"t happen for reasons I have stated before) I decided not to show once called, mucked my hand, I would abide by whatever the TD decided.

However, there are the two sides to the discussion.
The side that would ask and don"t have a problem and the side that wouldn"t and have a problem with side 1.

The discussion has raged back and forth and it"s clear that the twain will never meet.

Basically, for the reasons stated, it"s considered bad form to ask to see a mucked (not folded) hand. If you choose to do it, that"s up to you, but if you get slated for it, you only have yourself to blame.

Until the "Rule" is clarified (or gets back to the original reason for it) we"ll have to live with it.

I would hope that the "APAT spirit" would pervade and the problem will not arise in the first place.

There, that"s answered the OP. Move along, nothing else to see here.