What did I do wrong here?

[CrizzyConnor]

Looking for views on what I did wrong in this hand, my exit hand from the APAT Welsh Online.  Surely my raise pre, c-bet and 3-bet adds up to more than air?!? I had only played 3 hands at the table in about 20 mins so there"s no way they had any reasons to think I was bluffing other than how I played the hand and just wondering what part of that I made the mistake in. The hands I played were; one when I first joined where I raised and got shoved all-in over and folded and the only other hand I played (in 20 mins!) was directly before this when I re-raised AMRN"s 1800 open with AA, which is only thing I can think may have had an effect on the player thinking I was at it? Like I couldn"t have something twice in a row?


***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 659088203 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $0 Entry Fee, Level:11 Blinds(400/800-80 ante) - Saturday, February 27, 22:25:48 GMT 2010
APAT Online Welsh Championship #352407
Table 8 9-max (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of active players : 9
Seat 1: AMRN ( 41,294.88 )
Seat 2: Mair41 ( 12,963.75 )
Seat 3: cormach ( 28,170.64 )
Seat 4: suzy666 ( 10,961 )
Seat 5: Crizzy ( 24,997 )
Seat 6: carlarge ( 32,842.47 )
Seat 7: Swinebag ( 36,101.39 )
Seat 8: Sill bags ( 13,287.50 )
Seat 9: Roobarb007 ( 20,294.12 )
Tourney Level:11 Blinds(400/800-80 ante)
AMRN posts ante [80]
Mair41 posts ante [80]
cormach posts ante [80]
suzy666 posts ante [80]
Crizzy posts ante [80]
Swinebag posts ante [80]
Roobarb007 posts ante [80]
Sill bags posts ante [80]
carlarge posts ante [80]
Crizzy posts small blind [400]
carlarge posts big blind [800]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Crizzy [  kd,  ah]
Swinebag folds
Sill bags folds
Roobarb007 folds
AMRN folds
Mair41 folds
cormach folds
suzy666 folds
Crizzy raises to [1,750]
carlarge calls [950]
** Dealing Flop ** [ ,  jc, ]
Crizzy bets [2,250]
carlarge raises to [4,500]
Crizzy raises to [9,575]
carlarge calls [5,075]
** Dealing Turn ** [  :: ]
Crizzy goes all-in
Crizzy bets [13,592]
carlarge calls [13,592]
** Showdown **
Crizzy shows [  kd,  ah ]
carlarge shows [::, ]
** Dealing River ** [ ]
** Hand Conclusion **
carlarge wins 50,554 from main pot with three of a kind, Sevens
************  Game 659088203 ends  ************

The only thing I can think of is raising a bit more pre but it was a pretty standard raise for the table (about 1800 had been norm). The all-in on the turn may be slightly donkish but I could"ve been on a flush draw or not wanting to be put to a decision with a J. The all-in was just over half pot bet which is pretty standard and was my only option other than giving up the hand. I"m happy to go out and lose if he had the J, two pair or the f-draw, I don"t mind that at all as it"s my own fault for being a donk but to be called down with 72 was ridiculous IMO.

[AMRN]

missed this hand - was in a PLO hand at the time.

pretty sick one Chris.  a marginal call from 72o preflop, although he did have position on you for the rest of the hand. Not sure about the later calls though.

[CrizzyConnor]

missed this hand - was in a PLO hand at the time.

pretty sick one Chris.  a marginal call from 72o preflop, although he did have position on you for the rest of the hand. Not sure about the later calls though.

Yeah, definitely thought I could get it through being that I had been playing fairly tight up until then.
It"s a fold pre from me but after his pre-flop call there"s no problem with his re-raise to ask a question once he hits but the call of 3-bet was pretty horrible IMO. I"ve yet to come accross many light 3-bets in this tourney, oh well.  I guess by posting this my 3-bets will be put to the test in the future now but feck it

[MintTrav]

Do you remember Carlarge was on our table when you got it AIPF for your life with 65 against my AK even though I had 3-bet you the other night? He probably remembered you.

[WYoung83]

 Raise was way to small pre flop with antes up for grabs and position for the BB. from the looks at first hes not playing his hand, he is playing the situation imo....he hits 2nd pair and repops your c bet to find out if you have an over pair or jack. You basically said you have a hand at this point and i cant justify his play after you have basically pot commited yourself. they say that you want to play vs these type of players, but when somthing like this happens it hurts like hell and leaves you scratching you head.

[CrizzyConnor]

Do you remember Carlarge was on our table when you got it AIPF for your life with 65 against my AK even though I had 3-bet you the other night? He probably remembered you.

You still whining about that?! It was suuuiiittteeed ffs
And you never 3-bet me you re-raised my cut-off raise from the BB and I 3-bet you all in.

Maybe he did remember me from there but there"s a definite difference between 3-betting all in pre-flop 17/18bbs deep and raising, C-betting, 3-betting then all in on turn IMO. Anyone can spazz out all in pre-flop but it takes a right idiot to keep spazzing out like I did in this hand without having 72os beat

[CrizzyConnor]

Raise was way to small pre flop with antes up for grabs and position for the BB. from the looks at first hes not playing his hand, he is playing the situation imo....he hits 2nd pair and repops your c bet to find out if you have an over pair or jack. You basically said you have a hand at this point and i cant justify his play after you have basically pot commited yourself. they say that you want to play vs these type of players, but when somthing like this happens it hurts like hell and leaves you scratching you head.

Yeah that was my thinking, the call pre is marginal at best but that doesn"t matter. The re-raise on flop is totally fine to ask the question but when I answered with the 3-bet it should"ve been done and dusted there IMO. The fact my 3-bet wasn"t massive either should"ve been seen as a sign of strength too, or so I thought when I made the bet. Onwards and upwards I suppose. I won $100 in a $10 HU tourney I wouldn"t have played has I still been in this so I guess it"s alright

[MintTrav]

Do you remember Carlarge was on our table when you got it AIPF for your life with 65 against my AK even though I had 3-bet you the other night? He probably remembered you.

You still whining about that?! It was suuuiiittteeed ffs
And you never 3-bet me you re-raised my cut-off raise from the BB and I 3-bet you all in.

Maybe he did remember me from there but there"s a definite difference between 3-betting all in pre-flop 17/18bbs deep and raising, C-betting, 3-betting then all in on turn IMO. Anyone can spazz out all in pre-flop but it takes a right idiot to keep spazzing out like I did in this hand without having 72os beat

Lol, yeah making the bet without the goods is much preferable to calling without them. And it was my decision not to take the lower-risk option in a satellite. AK is hardly a cast-iron winner. It might be a good hand to have them all in with in a top-heavy structure, but it"s not necessary to make the PF call in a multi-seat satellite. Also I suppose you did me a favour cos whichever of us won the hand was virtually guaranteed a £75 seat and I was certain I was well ahead. So good luck to you, I"ve put it down to variance. 56s is the nuts.
Suggest you Google three-betting though - yours was a four-bet.

[CrizzyConnor]

Do you remember Carlarge was on our table when you got it AIPF for your life with 65 against my AK even though I had 3-bet you the other night? He probably remembered you.

You still whining about that?! It was suuuiiittteeed ffs
And you never 3-bet me you re-raised my cut-off raise from the BB and I 3-bet you all in.

Maybe he did remember me from there but there"s a definite difference between 3-betting all in pre-flop 17/18bbs deep and raising, C-betting, 3-betting then all in on turn IMO. Anyone can spazz out all in pre-flop but it takes a right idiot to keep spazzing out like I did in this hand without having 72os beat

Lol, yeah making the bet without the goods is much preferable to calling without them. And it was my decision not to take the lower-risk option in a satellite. AK is hardly a cast-iron winner. It might be a good hand to have them all in with in a top-heavy structure, but it"s not necessary to make the PF call in a multi-seat satellite. Also I suppose you did me a favour cos whichever of us won the hand was virtually guaranteed a £75 seat and I was certain I was well ahead. So good luck to you, I"ve put it down to variance. 56s is the nuts.
Suggest you Google three-betting though - yours was a four-bet.

Pot was unopened when I raised so my raise = 1st bet
your re-raise = 2nd bet
my re-raise = 3-bet .... no?

or do we count the blinds as a bet pre-flop?

I can"t be bothered looking it up

[hi_am_chris]

If it was pre flop then after you open the re raise is the 3 bet

[CrizzyConnor]

If it was pre flop then after you open the re raise is the 3 bet

right, never realised the blinds counted pre-flop, I stand corrected. Why not just say re-raise then?
I only find it useful to say when describing play post flop rather than saying re-re-re-re-re-raising.

[LongshanksED]

It"s effectively a min raise from your sb so villian is getting Nearly 3/1 and with position is getting price to call with any 2 cards. I"d have made it 2.4k - 2.8k

even though it still a marginal call preflop

post flop I"d c bet it too but maybe not as much, his re raise could be a bluff but I"m still folding as we"ve completely missed and have no draw except to hit ace/king or runner runner for a straight and he could also be on a flush draw

it"s a fold on the flop from me

[TheSnapper]

Pot was unopened when I raised so my raise = 1st bet
your re-raise = 2nd bet
my re-raise = 3-bet .... no?

or do we count the blinds as a bet pre-flop?

I can"t be bothered looking it up

Posting Blinds= 1st bet
Your Raise = 2nd Bet
ReRaise= 3 bet
ReReRaise= 4 bet

Raise more pre, it might be ok to make that just over min raise with position, but you need to charge more when oop.
Cbet is standard but you should fold to his flop raise, you"re repop is not horrible and should get through but you now have nearly half your stack in and should"nt fold so you may be better off making yours the last best by pushing the lot in.
Fold to flop raise > flop RR ai > flop min RR

[noble1]

i have not read the other replies so forgive me if i repeat anything said already..

if i was in the big blind [trying to think like him,maybe if he thinks?] and called - flop 7 J 4 [2 suited] tbh your bet sizing and what you are trying to rep would maybe not make sense to him..
Your lead is fine but when min re-raised your min 3bet is where it gets murky imho , if u had a jack obv u cant have a flush draw but you give the big blind the odds to? so i"d expect you to bet more to protect your jack [or anything strong]
A flush draw is a maybe [ish] for u but mostly players would check raise or lead and call the min re-raise,so the way u play it when u shove the 3clubs turn [a good card for bb holding 2nd pair] only 56 or a fancy play bluff make any sort of sense , even 56 looks iffy line wise ,so i"d plump for bluff and call with my pair of 7"s [and 2club flush draw ]

anyone else think the min 3bet [sizing] by crizzy would seem odd?

[MintTrav]

Just realised who your opponent was - he made FT at European Champs in Luton.
On second thoughts that doesn"t necessarily mean he knows anything about poker - one or two right donks on that table.