S4 Online National League 1 - Matchday 2

[Bodddders]

Not sure Leigh, maybe the buy-in?

Or just like me, some players aren"t very good!

[Mayfair]

are you guys saying that you cant beat bad players ??

[coprey]

Not sure Leigh, maybe the buy-in?

Or just like me, some players aren"t very good!

Please provide examples of poor play, I want to encourage as many players as possible to support the team.  

[mike saban]

Generally, in my experience the players on Betfair are of a less high standard than those who play on other sites. If I"m honest this suits me down to the ground as I believe that this gives me a greater chance of winning ( and I have screen shots to prove it - lol ).

However I am currently experiencing that these not so great players are a lot luckier than me, which is not so cool. This is an observation across the board with Betfair not necessarily APAT specific. I"m sure this spell will eventually end, just on a personal downer at the moment.

There"s a lot of room for improvement with the Betfair poker software, and I"m sure that the management and technical teams over there will know and be working on this, but the overall package that Betfair provide, i.e customer service, fast withdraw times, plenty of added value etc is in my opinion pretty good and is up there with the best when compared with their competitors.

[Mayfair]

The blind structure does seem a little fast to me. Plus i have no idea what the blind
structure is. Is it posted anywhere ? Or can you find it in the tourney lobby.
The tourney lobby seems to be lacking any facts other than chip stacks and payouts.

Plus the software is so laggy. I"m fed up of check boxing the little fold button then
having to hit the fold button when it is you to act.

[BurnleyMik]

@Leigh,

Sorry, don"t get me wrong. I don"t actually think you (as in APAT) can do much more, you"ve done & continue to do a superb job here, I"ve always said that and stand by that to this day.

My gripe is the standard of play of fellow APAT members, including some of the well known, "supposedly skilled" characters, combined with lack of fun-factor/community spirit. Also the fact that the end game structure where everyone on the final table is deep into push/fold, but we appreciate your efforts already made to address this. 

I joined APAT a couple of years ago to learn from players better than myself, but sadly with the exception of a handful of extremely consistent and skilled players, there is little evidence. These league games in particular are just a glorified lottery/bingo with the spoils always going to whoever donks the most or catches the most suckouts. I might as well stick the buyin on a horse, watching even a 3-legged one go around would invoke more pleasure tbh.

Playing is the equivalent of walking down to the newsagent and waiting in there 2 to 3 hours before buying your lottery ticket? pointless.

The online games used to be hugely enjoyable with great table banter. Ok, so I never used to cash, but cashing isn"t everything, I still enjoyed the event. Don"t know what it is that"s changed, maybe the "amateurs" are just getting too serious lured by the added value and professional sponserships and want to win at whatever cost? but it just seems less friendly/fun than it used to be.

Take last weeks league game for example. I got table moved and got dealt QQ 2nd hand in to the new table. After standard raising, the bb (well known "previous winner" character, just shoved allin for something like 40bb with Ace rag), not content with that, he had the audacity to accuse me of slowrolling when i eventually called (after just 5 or 6 seconds) and showed the queens.
I mean wtf? I was new to the table, with no reads at all, had a good but very beatable hand and was calling a massive overbet all in for my tournament life with absolutely nothing to gain from "slowrolling" as he had already stupidly fully committed himself.
To receive such unfounded gibes from a supposedly experienced community member is just not on. It will bring down the great spirit that I thought the APAT stood for. 

Re: Software, I"ve already supplied Betfair with a list of observations/suggestions for future update consideration.

Rant over, hopefully some of it might be constructive (or at least amusing), if not sorry but thanks for reading. I certainly feel better now having made it    

Best regards,


Bart

So you don;t want the "skilled" players to play badly against you? I would love it if I raised QQ and someone blasted with Ace rag  . If the general skill level is lower, so what? If you want the highest standard of play then go play in the high buy in tournaments, this game IMO is about community spirit and people moaning and griping every two mins seems to be getting more and more common. Some of you guys seem to want blood out of a stone.

It"s a credit to APAT if they are drawing new, less skilled and less experienced players into the game, afterall is that not what we as poker players want? Do you expect these guys to come in and play like Phil Ivey? We should be helping to make it a fun game for those guys and not whinging when they don;t play a hand like you want/expect them too.

It"s impossible to please everyone, if you wanted a longer structure most people would not be able to play because of work the following morning, they have it just about perfect IMO.

Come on guys see it for what it is... fun within the community and obviously a little competetiveness between sides.

[Chipaccrual]

We will have another look at the structure.  All three games tonight finished between 11:45-12:15.  I"m not sure how much later we want these tourneys to run on a Sunday night.

The only thing we can do is look at giving a bit more play earlier in the tournament, but I would hate for a final table to become a total push/fold situation.

FWIW, there was some poker being played on the final tables tonight.

[bear21]

Just my 2pence worth regarding the online game !
Joined APAT last year and have loved every minute of it ( sooo far ) LOL, prefer the live tourneys as I never seem to do well online !
Are APAT doing a great job - YES
Is betfair software great - NO ( but I"ve played on worse )
So far betfair customer service has been excellent ( A LOT BETTER THAN MOST )
The package on offer to us players by betfair this year is great ( Don"t  Keep Moaning )

Yes you get bad beats - LIVE with it ( I"ve had Too LOL )
Apat is about everyone having a great time , a bit of banter and a laugh, don"t take it to seriously and enjoy the games, yes you will want to pull your hair out sometimes ( Don"t have that problem )   :"(
That"s what I think APAT is all about !, somepeople may disagree ahhh well

[Chipaccrual]

Updated results and league tables are HERE

[MintTrav]

the standard of play in the first 2 games has been pretty poor IMO.  I am also giving up on the online league  

I look forward to the standard improving................

[MintTrav]

Can we take a time-out to cool off, Bart? It is infuriating when you are sucked-out on, but shortly afterwards is not the best time to post your feelings about it. We all feel outraged at certain times when we have outplayed someone to get their chips in bad and they get lucky yet again. Being able to manage our reactions to this is part of what makes for a more successful poker player. APAT players have a varied range of styles and abilities but I think that the standard of both the average and top-end players is stronger than is found in other non-professional tournaments. You may have encountered some examples of play that you didn"t agree with, but that doesn"t mean that they are representative or that your sample is large enough to draw conclusions, so I think it"s best if we allow feelings to cool down for a couple of days and I will contact you then.

My main concern, obviously, is that Dave & Leigh don"t have to make their own way to Swansea, cos God knows if we would ever see them again. Also, we need every player we can get for the Solent team, even those who keep stacking off to worse players .

PS: I can"t see much benefit in a series of ripostes now being posted. Not sure what there is to say that hasn"t been said before.

[Mikeyboy9361]

The chat and banter on my table was typical APAT, very good natured, and the input from observers was humerous, no complaints on that score, just the poker!!

[coprey]

I enjoyed the game last night until i got put out  . The banter at the table was fine, and I enjoyed chatting with my fellow teammates and a few other railers, who provided some support and friendly chat. The forum is the means whereby we get an opportunity to feedback any issues to APAT. There are both positive and negative ways in going about this, id prefer the former over the latter.

[BurnleyMik]

My apologies if I came accross a bit harsh in my last post.

FWIW the structure is fine IMO as if it finishes much later I doubt many would be able to play. Just take these games at face value IMO and enjoy them. Last night was good fun and I like the team mates aspect of the game, except when they are both on your left and you don;t want to steal their blinds every round!

[VBlue]

Here"s my two-penneth worth:

1) Betfair - seems OK.  Missing a few features that other sites carry, but on the whole will do the job.  I only use for the APAT games anyway.
2) Online league game structure - seems about right.  I agree with Leigh's comment - midnight finish is late enough for those players who have an early start on Monday.  I thought the FT would be a shove fest, but it was far from it in Div 3"s game.
3) Standard of players - mixed, as at any tournament, WSOP, EPT, GUKPT, WPT included.  These complaints about poor opposition, bingo, and all the rest of it exists on every poker site and at every tournament.  If you cannot adjust your play to beat the poorer players (over the long-term) then you are a poor player yourself.  Sucking out is part of the game.  Variance is a bitch and is also part of the game.  Surely, those who have played online for any length of time know that by now.  I couldn"t win a pub game for the first couple of months when I started one up a couple of years ago despite having years of experience on nearly all the players.  Then I adjusted my play to suit the opposition and found I was the No 1 cashing player over 2 years.
4) APAT Community - In the Div 3 game, whilst my opening table was a little quiet earlier on, the banter soon followed.  If you are unhappy with the level of banter, why not look to whip it up yourself?

Finally, I have been observing the APAT for over a year now and have finally found time to get involved.  I am, and always have been, very impressed with their offering.  As someone who is involved in a local poker community, promoting and hosting events, I know how difficult it can be to get it right for everyone.  I also know how players can be worse than a knitting circle  when they get together and bitch about everything they can find (stich and bitch).

Constructive criticisim is absolutely valuable.  But unconstructie criticism is damaging and causes a lot of work to overcome.  I would say be part of the solution, not part of the problem.  And remember that you are only one customer and that not absolutely everything will suit you, but must appeal to the many.

- I would prefer not to be on Betfair, but it will do. 
- I am fairly happy with the structure and see sense in the 12pm finish. 
- I like banter, so I instigate it.  I go out of my way to find out who is playing for who and I get on with the wisecracks. 
- I want more players to join Carlisle Poker Club, so I am recuriting amongst my friends on facebook and from my local poker club.  I am also contacting them on match day via APAT and supporting them by railing them.

Are you contributing to the continued shaping of this succesful poker club or are you simply bemoaning your bad luck at getting sucked out on?  Look at what you have to offer APAT as well as what they have to offer you.  I am sure that all players have a great contribution to make.

Cheers

Mark.