What is the correct ruling here ?

[ck1888]

This situation caused quite a stir at the local casino on tuesday night and i would be interested to hear the thoughts of you guys on this.

Blinds are 100/200. UG+1 calls, cut off raises to 600, SB calls, BB calls then the dealer deals the flop !!!

Then the SB leads for 1200 at which point the BB calls the floor for a ruling as obviously the UG+1 never called the raise.

The BB and the raiser had quite different ideas as how to continue from here.

Opinions please...

[AMRN]

interesting one - not sure what the "correct" line is.

Personally, I would wind the hand back to the preflop position and ask the UTG+1 to call/fold/raise. The cards dealt on the flop would be put back in the pack and the pack shuffled.

[Paulie_D]

The flop needs to be redealt. The boardcards are mixed with the remainder of the deck. The burncard remains on the table. After shuffling, the dealer cuts the deck and deals a new flop without burning a card.

Before all that the UTG+1 gets to complete his action.

It"s all in RROP somewhere.

[Swinebag]

The flop needs to be redealt. The boardcards are mixed with the remainder of the deck. The burncard remains on the table. After shuffling, the dealer cuts the deck and deals a new flop without burning a card.

Before all that the UTG+1 gets to complete his action.

It"s all in RROP somewhere.

shouldn"t the turn and river be dealt face down first (with their respective burn cards) before the deck is reshuffled?

[Paulie_D]

Not that I"m aware of. No reason too as they flop will be different to the first (barring a major miracle). No need for the turn and river to be dealt until the new flop is in place.

[Geo]

The flop needs to be redealt. The boardcards are mixed with the remainder of the deck. The burncard remains on the table. After shuffling, the dealer cuts the deck and deals a new flop without burning a card.

Before all that the UTG+1 gets to complete his action.

It"s all in RROP somewhere.

shouldn"t the turn and river be dealt face down first (with their respective burn cards) before the deck is reshuffled?

This happened in a hand I was involved in during the Edinburgh leg last year, I detailed it somewhere on the forum.

This is exactly the action taken and I"m sure is correct.

Geo

[LongshanksED]

Best of my knowledge (and I"ve misdealt a few times but luckily we have an ex toureny director that organizes the pub league we play in) is that you leave flop burn card where it is, burn and deal turn face down, burn and deal river face down. Collect the flop cards, then reshuffle and ask the utg+1 player his intention to call, raise or fold! When utg+1 player decides to call or fold. Deal the flop. If he raises, then action obviously continues as normal!

[AMRN]

I don"t think it"s right that the turn and river are dealt before the pack shuffled and flop redealt - for two reasons:

1. The whole purpose of the burn card is to avoid players being able to read any markings on the back of a card before it is dealt. If the card sits face down on the table, any such markings would be exposed.

2. Three of the cards in the pack (the original flop) have been seen. If they don"t re-appear on the new flop, you know three cards that can"t come on the turn and river, and this would change the dynamics of drawing hands.

[Paulie_D]

I don"t think it"s right that the turn and river are dealt before the pack shuffled and flop redealt - for two reasons:

1. The whole purpose of the burn card is to avoid players being able to read any markings on the back of a card before it is dealt. If the card sits face down on the table, any such markings would be exposed.

2. Three of the cards in the pack (the original flop) have been seen. If they don"t re-appear on the new flop, you know three cards that can"t come on the turn and river, and this would change the dynamics of drawing hands.

In addition, there"s extra cards on the table that can get flipped, mucked accidentally and in fact, may not even be needed. The possibilities are endless to cause total carnage.

In any case, the flop will be completely different to what it would have been thus rendering the impact of the turn/river on the previous flop pointless.