Rules Question: please help

[CanUK]

Ok....

3 people in a pot.

Player 1 is short stacked and can"t even cover the 4000 for big blind. So he in all in.

Player 2 button has about 35000 chips and anounces raise

Player 3 has 56000 chips and is small blind (2000). Says all in after player 1 says raise.

Did player 3 act out of turn by not waiting for an amount of the raise to be declaired?

I do know every place will have different house rules, but what is the standard ruling.

Background. In our league if somebody says raise the min raise is the BB not double big blind.

[cincicrappykid]

i had a pro do this to me in a comp last year  its a bit sneaky but ur right min raise is bb after he has made a move on you snap him off he is bluffing

[CanUK]

i had a pro do this to me in a comp last year  its a bit sneaky but ur right min raise is bb after he has made a move on you snap him off he is bluffing

more info I was player 3. Figured player 2 was making a button raise.

I snap called all in, before he declared an amount. The table then said I acted out of turn. I said no I didn"t I knew a min raise  was a raise to 8000. I actually help him, giving him a chance to get away from the hand.

But did I act out of turn?

[Laxie]

At that point, all player 2 had said was "raise".  You didn"t give that player a chance to announce an amount before making your own move, so imo you did act out of turn.

[CanUK]

At that point, all player 2 had said was "raise".  You didn"t give that player a chance to announce an amount before making your own move, so imo you did act out of turn.

my argument is it didn"t matter what the raise was. I was going all in. It acculty helped him. Giving him the oppertuity to min raise and get away from the hand if it was a button steal.

When he anounces raise I know the min amount he can raise.

My other argument is that if someone says raise, and people behind start folding before an amount is announced that tells the raiser his hand is getting better with each fold.

[Laxie]

At that point, all player 2 had said was "raise".  You didn"t give that player a chance to announce an amount before making your own move, so imo you did act out of turn.

my argument is it didn"t matter what the raise was. I was going all in. It acculty helped him. Giving him the oppertuity to min raise and get away from the hand if it was a button steal.

When he anounces raise I know the min amount he can raise.

My other argument is that if someone says raise, and people behind start folding before an amount is announced that tells the raiser his hand is getting better with each fold.

That just makes them wrong too, but it doesn"t make you right.  Your knowing the min raise amount doesn"t mean he is obliged to raise that amount.  Everyone is entitled to make their move in turn and they"re entitled time in determining what that move will be.

And if you want to look at it from another angle...others at the table could say you were friends with button guy and trying to warn him not to get involved.  

[deanp27]

just pay attention, it makes thing easier.

and my pet hate is people folding out of turn, it happens so much and is such bad form (includes people in LP going to the toilet before the action is on them)

also button "stealing" when the BB is already all in seems a bit daft

[CanUK]

At that point, all player 2 had said was "raise".  You didn"t give that player a chance to announce an amount before making your own move, so imo you did act out of turn.

my argument is it didn"t matter what the raise was. I was going all in. It acculty helped him. Giving him the oppertuity to min raise and get away from the hand if it was a button steal.

When he anounces raise I know the min amount he can raise.

I agree with you, but if you fold out of turn ( before an ammount is said) then you can go all in the same time. That is my argument on the night.

More background. It is a pub league for point no money involved. We play each other twice a week and we are all friends so it is not about working together.

We have all folded when sombody days raise, I just used it for my advantage.

Plus if player 2 had AAs and snap called my all in. There would not have been an issue. But because it was a button blind steal raise, with 24 off. We had the discusion.

And wanted clarification of the rule in general terms.

Thanks for you feedback.



My other argument is that if someone says raise, and people behind start folding before an amount is announced that tells the raiser his hand is getting better with each fold.

That just makes them wrong too, but it doesn"t make you right.  Your knowing the min raise amount doesn"t mean he is obliged to raise that amount.  Everyone is entitled to make their move in turn and they"re entitled time in determining what that move will be.

And if you want to look at it from another angle...others at the table could say you were friends with button guy and trying to warn him not to get involved. 

[Laxie]

A button blind steal with 2 4 os when the BB can"t even complete the 4k blind?!  That"s some pub game!  lol

[Marty719]

U were def in the wrong.  Let the button finish his action before you start yours.  

[CanUK]

just pay attention, it makes thing easier.

and my pet hate is people folding out of turn, it happens so much and is such bad form (includes people in LP going to the toilet before the action is on them)

also button "stealing" when the BB is already all in seems a bit daft

I had a 2 to 1 chip lead on player 2. Plus as mention we play the same people twice a week for the last 3 year. Most of my moves vs players in our league are playing the player not the cards.

I agree with your pet hate, it"s mine too.

[MintTrav]

and my pet hate is people folding out of turn

We all need to relax a bit. My pet hate is supermarket cashiers licking their fingers to separate plastic bags and then wiping their saliva all over the food I have to eat, but what can you do?

[Marty719]

and my pet hate is people folding out of turn

We all need to relax a bit. My pet hate is supermarket cashiers licking their fingers to separate plastic bags and then wiping their saliva all over the food I have to eat, but what can you do?

Buy packaged foods...

[Paulie_D]

what can you do?

Wash your food before eating/cooking....it"s already been mauled by other shoppers anyway.

[WarBwastardo]

You did act out of turn and it"s bad etiquette, equally as bad as folding out of turn.  You essentially gave the guy on the button information he wasn"t entitled to.  By your own words you "helped him" which is not fair on the other players.  If you persuaded the guy to minimise his raise because he wasn"t that strong by announcing all-in prematurely you may have saved him some money which is not fair on the rest of the players.  He may for example now go on and bust someone in the next hand with chips he shouldn"t have.

You should have kept quiet until he"d finished his bet.  Every action has repercussions on everyone in tournament poker.

Also no one should be licking other people"s food.