APAT events in Europe

[BOINGBLITZ]

Firstly, I hope that "all " you APAT"ers currently stuck out in Austria get back safely and as quickly as possible. Must be a real bummer to have the worry of how and when you are going to get home hanging over a weekend away like that and, having spent a night sleeping outside on a German car-park surounded by 300 police in Stuttgart at the last World Cup, I KNOW how you feel (but that"s another story !)

 The purpose of this post is that I was wondering if it is just me who thinks that these European events are detracting from the APAT "family" feel ?

 IMO, this isn"t an APAT event at all. It is a poker tourney taking place in Vienna that has EIGHT (correct me if I am wrong) APAT regulars taking part. There were probably more APAT players than that in the UKIPT this weekend. Maybe that was an APAT event too ?

 For most of us, getting away for a weekend when you have a family can be difficult, but we can do it for events that don"t cost the Earth. This trip however would have cost the best part of £350-£400 before a card had been dealt or a 9-euro bottle of beer been purchased. How can you justify that for a £75 tournament ? You would have to make the Final Table to break even.

 Do we not have enough casino"s in the UK to cater for all of these events ?
 We have no tourney in Walsall or Birmingham this season for whatever reason, yet a tourney here this weekend would have surely have got more than 8 (?) regular APAT"ers ?

 I understand the thought that APAT want to reach out to Europe but do you really think that many (any ?) of the local players will ever take part in another APAT event ?....will they be inspired to fly to Aberdeen next month ?
Personally, I think not. 

 If you are going to continue with these events then shouldn"t there be proper satellites that include a hotel package and spending money for flights aswell as your tourney buy-in ?  That way more regulars could then justify these trips.

 I just think that it is a great shame that for the vast majority of regular APAT players, people who hate to miss even one event per season, are now going to be forced out of up to 3 events this season and yes, I put myself in this category.

 This is an observation but am I the only person who feels that these tournies are detracting from the APAT ethos and community spirit and feel ?

[MAIR]

Difficult for me to put into words my thoughts on this Brian but they are very similar to yours.

I have to say, the updates as always are fab, the guys do a bang up job, but its not the same.  We maybe railed about 9 players we know of and it is unfortunate that they went out early yesterday.

What seems a shame is that 90% of the field are unknowns who don"t even know what APAT is about, they are there just to play a tournament that is in their local casino, yes they may be APAT members now and we welcome them, but it is not the "normal" spirited APAT event.

It is a worry, moreso there are still a couple of european tours still to come, and have to wonder how many will travel to those events.

I was just mentioning to someone yesterday how APAT is to allow people to play these gr8 tournaments for such a reasonable buy in without the worry of huge added expense.  What we have here tho, is good buy-in for tournament and huge costs for travel/expenses.

This is not an unspirited post, love the ethos that APAT represents, but I am not sure these European tournaments can be justified to hold 3 a year, yes 1 would be fine, allowing those fortunate enough to be able to attend the opportunity of overseas tournament and also an increase in european players, but can"t say Im keen.

[Laxie]

Not going on about APAT ethos and that, but I know I can"t afford 3 in the year if I want to do many of the UK ones.  Will be lucky to get to one euro tourney...and you can be sure it"ll include sun!

[duke3016]

Must be a real bummer to have the worry of how and when you are going to get home

Erm no  

[Honeybadg]

It"s a very interesting topic - and it will be interesting to see what the "Austrian 9" made of the experience.

For me - although unlikely I will be able to attend any of these events I think it is great that the APAT is looking to branch out and become something bigger.

For me - 95+% of poker players are amateurs - so it feels like the tour should be bigger.

I certainly agree that there should be full package sat"s and lots of them!

I think there should be more qualification seats and packages for all the events - it shouldn"t rely on being ready for a clickfest - or holding tank to open.

It would be great if the Austrians could come to the World events - but I guess they are already sold out??

L

[Waz1892]

Firstly, I hope that "all " you APAT"ers currently stuck out in Austria get back safely and as quickly as possible. Must be a real bummer to have the worry of how and when you are going to get home hanging over a weekend away like that and, having spent a night sleeping outside on a German car-park surounded by 300 police in Stuttgart at the last World Cup, I KNOW how you feel (but that"s another story !)

 The purpose of this post is that I was wondering if it is just me who thinks that these European events are detracting from the APAT "family" feel ?

 IMO, this isn"t an APAT event at all. It is a poker tourney taking place in Vienna that has EIGHT (correct me if I am wrong) APAT regulars taking part. There were probably more APAT players than that in the UKIPT this weekend. Maybe that was an APAT event too ?

 For most of us, getting away for a weekend when you have a family can be difficult, but we can do it for events that don"t cost the Earth. This trip however would have cost the best part of £350-£400 before a card had been dealt or a 9-euro bottle of beer been purchased. How can you justify that for a £75 tournament ? You would have to make the Final Table to break even.

 Do we not have enough casino"s in the UK to cater for all of these events ?
 We have no tourney in Walsall or Birmingham this season for whatever reason, yet a tourney here this weekend would have surely have got more than 8 (?) regular APAT"ers ?

 I understand the thought that APAT want to reach out to Europe but do you really think that many (any ?) of the local players will ever take part in another APAT event ?....will they be inspired to fly to Aberdeen next month ?
Personally, I think not. 

 If you are going to continue with these events then shouldn"t there be proper satellites that include a hotel package and spending money for flights aswell as your tourney buy-in ?  That way more regulars could then justify these trips.

 I just think that it is a great shame that for the vast majority of regular APAT players, people who hate to miss even one event per season, are now going to be forced out of up to 3 events this season and yes, I put myself in this category.

 This is an observation but am I the only person who feels that these tournies are detracting from the APAT ethos and community spirit and feel ?

I felt when the tour for S4 was announced it was a case of "walk before you could run".  There is so much potential in the UK for an amateur tour without branching into European locations.

To have 4 out of the 11 overseas is alot and I feel dispropotionate to the majority of the amateur members of the APAT bankroll and time.  As has been said the £75 buy in is alot...without the travel expenses to again the vast majority of its members...let alone the buy in and travelling for Euro trips.

As with the pro league..I fear that it could be said the APAT is becoming more distance with the majortiy of its members.

Branch out of course..but in the way that captures more opportunity..not in a way that decreases that opportunity.

What is the aim of APAT to have more members or more active members?
To have a higher presense in the UK or Europe?
To have amatuer players with modest bankrolls or high rollers?

and if you can only have 1 of each...where is the direction?

IMHO.

[TightEnd]

A few points

There are over 20,000 APAT members across the world. It"s not just a UK-centric organisation, and never was intended to be.

There are no fewer UK based events in Season 4 than there were in seasons 1-3. A few of the venues may be different but that reflects a) who wants us? b) can we afford to go there within the event budget provided by the sponsor and c) have they performed up to expectations for us in the past?

Some of the European venues reflect input from our sponsor, and as they provide over 30 seats to players this year, and pay for all APAT's costs, then that is fair enough.

When we last went to Austria 70 people went across from the UK. Since then economies have changed, and this time round we had Ash cloud uncertainty too. It is fair to say though that these events are designed to appeal to our members in the region first and foremost. It could well be the case that satellite offers for the UK players could be different and we will look at that

I don"t regard this event as any less of an APAT Event than a UK based event. It may not appeal to you, or be in your reach, but we worked very hard with the venue to raise the profile of APAT in the region beofre the event via emails to players in the region, flyers etc. The result of that was 179 runners. The winner knows he is getting a GUKPT seat too

Long term, and you might reasonably expect non-european APAT events soon enough, this has to be a good thing for an organisation that wants to represent Amateur poker players worldwide as an association and as a live poker offer, with no registration fees (which stunned the Austrian players) added values, great structures.

APAT is a force for good, and not just in the UK

[Jon MW]

How many people play the whole tour?
How many people can afford to play the whole tour, even if it was all held just in the UK?

Not being able to afford to play the overseas tournaments is fairly irrelevant unless you can afford to play all the others because if you"re missing some of them it isn"t relevant if it"s the Austrian event you"re missing or the London one, for example.

There may be a hardcore of people who play them all and really don"t want to miss out on any points scoring opportunities but it"s a fairly small proportion of APAT members who play more than 3 or 4 tournaments in a year.

That"s why I don"t think the overseas tournaments aren"t negative things.

The reason why I think they are positive was provided by Mair

...

What seems a shame is that 90% of the field are unknowns who don"t even know what APAT is about, they are there just to play a tournament that is in their local casino, yes they may be APAT members now and we welcome them, but it is not the "normal" spirited APAT event.

...

I was just mentioning to someone yesterday how APAT is to allow people to play these gr8 tournaments for such a reasonable buy in without the worry of huge added expense.  What we have here tho, is good buy-in for tournament and huge costs for travel/expenses.
...

It"s a pretty good result for 90% of the field to have such a great tournament for such a reasonable buy in.

[Geo]

I started this before Tighty"s post came up but I tend to agree with what he has said. I look at the European events being an addition to what is a great tour. Whilst some locations have changed, we have about the same amount of tourneys in the UK.

When I looked at the season 4 schedule I was pleased to see the Euro events but also knew that due to expenses I"d only be able to realistically make one of these events.

Previous posters mention satellites to the Euro events, in the case for Austria there were sats but few of us supported them, I"m sure Paul Mc won the only sat we managed to run for a reasonable package. Worth asking if it is too late in the day to run some sort of steps system for future Euro events, 1 $5 rebuy or $20 freezeout per week with xxx seats to a monthly final for a reasonable package/s dependent on runners.

My biggest worry this year has been the running of the Pro event alongside the Amatuer one which has significantly reduced the places available for the main event. This more than anything, IMHO has had more effect on APATERs being unable to play events. Quite happy to see the Pro event run but not at the expense of the main event, possibly done on the Sunday. I am aware of the call for many for a small side event on the Sunday for those that have travelled for the weekend but sure that something could be run beside a Pro event on the Sunday.

Just my tuppence worth, keep up the good work guys.

Geo

[TightEnd]

Thanks Geo

Understand your points about the Pro events entirely

One of the key reasons they are held on the Saturday is to be able to live stream the final, which we wouldn"t be able to do if it was held on a Sunday only when the £75 event was reaching it"s conclusion. Clearly we have had to do the Pro event on a Sunday at Aberdeen, so will be interested to see what happens with that

As to numbers Pro vis a vis Amateur capacity, we are struggling with UK venues a bit. Capacities are tighter generally, management attitudes to third party poker events are less accomodating than they have been in past...probably due to poker being seen as a cost centre rather than a profit centre in economic times where some venues are struggling

Long term..assuming correct satellites...APAT being as broad a live poker provider as possible geographically can only be a good thing

[Waz1892]

A few points

There are over 20,000 APAT members across the world. It"s not just a UK-centric organisation, and never was intended to be.

There are no fewer UK based events in Season 4 than there were in seasons 1-3. A few of the venues may be different but that reflects a) who wants us? b) can we afford to go there within the event budget provided by the sponsor and c) have they performed up to expectations for us in the past?

Some of the European venues reflect input from our sponsor, and as they provide over 30 seats to players this year, and pay for all APAT's costs, then that is fair enough.

When we last went to Austria 70 people went across from the UK. Since then economies have changed, and this time round we had Ash cloud uncertainty too. It is fair to say though that these events are designed to appeal to our members in the region first and foremost. It could well be the case that satellite offers for the UK players could be different and we will look at that

I don"t regard this event as any less of an APAT Event than a UK based event. It may not appeal to you, or be in your reach, but we worked very hard with the venue to raise the profile of APAT in the region beofre the event via emails to players in the region, flyers etc. The result of that was 179 runners. The winner knows he is getting a GUKPT seat too

Long term, and you might reasonably expect non-european APAT events soon enough, this has to be a good thing for an organisation that wants to represent Amateur poker players worldwide as an association and as a live poker offer, with no registration fees (which stunned the Austrian players) added values, great structures.

APAT is a force for good, and not just in the UK

hard to argue against - fair enough...and as i dont play all of the UK live tours anyway i guess i should keep schtum!

APAT has allowed me to play more live poker with great strutures and more online, all against better players than me when i started and so I can"t help but get better... so i"ll shut up....

[Geo]

Long term..assuming correct satellites...APAT being as broad a live poker provider as possible geographically can only be a good thing

Agreed sir,

good luck for the rest of the weekend and getting back.

Geo

[BOINGBLITZ]

Why is live streaming so important ?    There is no live streaming today ?

[TightEnd]

Why is live streaming so important ?    There is no live streaming today ?

Well at the moment the cost of live streaming abroad is too expensive, in terms of getting the people across...and its not covered in the sponsorship agreement. Moving forward, it may be.

For the UK events, I think its definitely added a lot to people at home"s enjoyment of the events. It"s not "so important" per se but logically if done well and developed can help increase the media profile of APAT, thus increasing membership and "brand value" too.

Once we"ve decided to do a Pro league (and some disagree with this, I know), then its equally logical to support that with streaming rather than not cover it.

I look at the streaming stuff for EPTs, UKIPTs etc and I think it adds a lot to site content too.

[Mikeyboy9361]

The live streaming has been great, and when you cant be there it gives a great in sight into the event. As regards overseas, why not? I haven"t managed a national event yet this year, and I can"t make Aberdeen, but I will get to any event I can, and because I haven"t played a UK event this year then I can justify a European Tour!!