S4 WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010

[APAT]

The 2010 APAT World Amateur Team Poker Championship will take place as part of the World Championship of Amateur Poker festival, at Nottingham"s Dusk Till Dawn on August 26th & 27th.

The entry fee per country will be £400; with no registration fee, and exclusive International Team Shirts will be provided to all participating players and captains.

There will be 12 countries taking part in the event and they are as follows:-

Canada
England
France
Germany
Holland
Italy
Northern Ireland
Poland
Republic of Ireland
Scotland
Spain
Wales

Each country will feature four playing members and a Captain; who may play as part of the team of four.  All of whom will also receive an option to enter the World Amateur Poker Championship main event following the conclusion of the Team Championship. 

The structure for the event will be announced in due course, but it is not expected to differ greatly from the structure at last year"s European Amateur Team Poker Championship.

The following videos summarise the outcome of the 2008 and 2009 European Amateur Team Poker Championships.

European Amateur Team Championship 2009



Winners - Poland




European Amateur Team Championship 2008



Winners - Ireland

[SirPercival]

International Team Captains will be responsible for the selection criteria for their country.  It will be a requirement; where applicable, to select the top two players from their country in the APAT National Amateur Rankings.

If either of these 2 players do not wish to play in the team championship, or are not available, will captains be required to offer the place to the third ranked player or will this revert back to the free choice of the captain?

[Chipaccrual]

International Team Captains will be responsible for the selection criteria for their country.  It will be a requirement; where applicable, to select the top two players from their country in the APAT National Amateur Rankings.

If either of these 2 players do not wish to play in the team championship, or are not available, will captains be required to offer the place to the third ranked player or will this revert back to the free choice of the captain?

I would suggest it reverts back to a free choice.  That would seem the correct thing to do.

[SirPercival]

Some further questions.

1. Are players who have played in the pro league permitted to play?

2. Can players in this event enter into the HU and Stud events?

3. Same question as 2 above but for non-playing captains?

[Chipaccrual]

Some further questions.

1. Are players who have played in the pro league permitted to play?  Yes, assuming they aren"t pro"s

2. Can players in this event enter into the HU and Stud events? No, the events clash

3. Same question as 2 above but for non-playing captains? No, see point 2

[SirPercival]

International Team Captains will be responsible for the selection criteria for their country.  It will be a requirement; where applicable, to select the top two players from their country in the APAT National Amateur Rankings.

If either of these 2 players do not wish to play in the team championship, or are not available, will captains be required to offer the place to the third ranked player or will this revert back to the free choice of the captain?

I would suggest it reverts back to a free choice.  That would seem the correct thing to do.

Thanks Leigh, I agree that seems correct.

I do however question the logic in forcing this requirement on Captains in the first place.  There will have been only 3 UK events that count towards these ranking points at the time of choosing a team. Notwithstanding the fact that we may have some Scots going to Estonia (not sure if there were any in Austria) this doesn"t seem like a reasonable sample size to assess an individuals potential contribution to a team event.

What do we mean by where applicable? If someone from Poland was 18th in one of these events and the 2009 winning team members have no points after these events then does the lucky player get a place at the expense of one of the players on the existing winning team?

[Chipaccrual]

International Team Captains will be responsible for the selection criteria for their country.  It will be a requirement; where applicable, to select the top two players from their country in the APAT National Amateur Rankings.

If either of these 2 players do not wish to play in the team championship, or are not available, will captains be required to offer the place to the third ranked player or will this revert back to the free choice of the captain?

I would suggest it reverts back to a free choice.  That would seem the correct thing to do.

Thanks Leigh, I agree that seems correct.

I do however question the logic in forcing this requirement on Captains in the first place.  There will have been only 3 UK events that count towards these ranking points at the time of choosing a team. Notwithstanding the fact that we may have some Scots going to Estonia (not sure if there were any in Austria) this doesn"t seem like a reasonable sample size to assess an individuals potential contribution to a team event.

What do we mean by where applicable? If someone from Poland was 18th in one of these events and the 2009 winning team members have no points after these events then does the lucky player get a place at the expense of one of the players on the existing winning team?

I agree with you there Stuart.  I think there will be a certain level of discretion shown on this.  It"s hard to not offer a Scotsman who may win the Scottish event a spot in the team, especially if he has played a few other APAT events this year, just as an example.  But if the top two Scots have picked up a handful of points, then being able to differentiate them from any other player is tough.  And some of the players in consideration may well have chosen to play the Pro league this year, and this should not rule them out of contention.

[TheSnapper]

I strongly agree with with Stuarts point, The ranking points are over such a small sample as to be a meaningless indication of playing ability. Also, the Team Championship format is vastly different to those included in the ranking system and thus calls for a very different and specific player type.

[Chipaccrual]

I strongly agree with with Stuarts point, The ranking points are over such a small sample as to be a meaningless indication of playing ability. Also, the Team Championship format is vastly different to those included in the ranking system and thus calls for a very different and specific player type.

I agree with that too.  

[SirPercival]

I strongly agree with with Stuarts point, The ranking points are over such a small sample as to be a meaningless indication of playing ability. Also, the Team Championship format is vastly different to those included in the ranking system and thus calls for a very different and specific player type.

I agree with that too.  

good - does that mean it"s going to change?

[Chipaccrual]

I strongly agree with with Stuarts point, The ranking points are over such a small sample as to be a meaningless indication of playing ability. Also, the Team Championship format is vastly different to those included in the ranking system and thus calls for a very different and specific player type.

I agree with that too.  

good - does that mean it"s going to change?

Not my call alone, but as you guys know, sensible discussion on the APAT forum is always welcomed, and where necessary changes can be made to reflect the views of players.

[AMRN]

It doesn"t seem right to me to be forcing selection based on rankings at such an early stage in the season...... personally, I"ve only been able to play one event this season so far (family commitment clashed with the Welsh and will again with the Scottish, and couldn"t afford to go to Austria).... and in the one event I have been able to play I suffered a horrible bad beat exit early on.... but I don"t believe that set of circumstances should make me any less eligible for a place..... yet forcing half of the team"s selection based on rankings would significantly dampen my chances.  I"m sure this goes for a whole host of others, and given the huge number of English players, it has an even greater impact on England specifically.

Last season, the team event came toward the end of the season, but even then the rankings weren"t a mandatory consideration.

[I think last year"s rankings should be taken into account though   ]

[APAT]

Stuart, your points are very valid and we"re certainly willing as always to listen to feedback on this.  Ultimately I would want to ensure we can continue to incentivise players to play APAT National events and this is one very good way to do so.  We"ll await further feedback before finalising the position.

[MintTrav]

I strongly agree with with Stuarts point, The ranking points are over such a small sample as to be a meaningless indication of playing ability. Also, the Team Championship format is vastly different to those included in the ranking system and thus calls for a very different and specific player type.

Damn, thought the rankings were going to force me in by default but it looks like the Captain has other ideas...........

[Waz1892]

Stuart, your points are very valid and we"re certainly willing as always to listen to feedback on this.  Ultimately I would want to ensure we can continue to incentivise players to play APAT National events and this is one very good way to do so.  We"ll await further feedback before finalising the position.

Then could it be set now for S5 that national events and points standing at the end of S4 will dictate some Team positions next year.  Everyone knows the score...so you have the incentivisation (its a word!) your looking for, but without closing the door for this years selection, with it being unannouced, and only possible to include the small sample of events so far.