Author Topic: S4 WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010  (Read 53403 times)

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Shogun112

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #90 on: July 17, 2010, 15:39:34 PM »

APAT announced the "top two" rule on 17 May, immediately received a lot of objections as people felt it would be top two from a very limited number of games and then said the same day that members" views would be taken into account. On 19 May they said that the rule was under review. Your claims about the rules being changed part-way through the season are misrepresenting the position and are unwarranted.

Carl, you have been banging on for ages about how you should be entitled to a place on the basis of a single (very good) result. I"m probably not the only who is tired of reading your posts on this, even before today. Just leave it up to the Captain.


It was my understanding that the top 2 rule was carried over from last years team selections.

John Murray, I have to read your banging on daily but don"t complain about you.!!  You are not even part of the team involved but still get involved.
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Hammerite

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #91 on: July 17, 2010, 15:48:56 PM »
Ok guys the decision has been made which is fine, I did say on my first post on this subject that Apat is a democratic organisation and as such I will abide by the the views of the majority.

I would be lying if I said I was not disappointed and I fully understand Carl"s frustration at the situation. However it is now time to move on and perhaps try and agree a system for next season which is acceptable to the majority so that this situation does not arise again in the future.

Oh and John as much as I respect you both as a player and a gentleman, Carl is entitled to voice his opinion on the forum and I suggest that if you are fed up with him banging on then don"t bother reading this particular thread. After all I am sure that your place on the Irish Team is very secure.  ;)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 15:53:02 PM by Hammerite »
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SirPercival

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #92 on: July 17, 2010, 16:06:15 PM »


APAT announced the "top two" rule on 17 May, immediately received a lot of objections as people felt it would be top two from a very limited number of games and then said the same day that members" views would be taken into account. On 19 May they said that the rule was under review. Your claims about the rules being changed part-way through the season are misrepresenting the position and are unwarranted.

Carl, you have been banging on for ages about how you should be entitled to a place on the basis of a single (very good) result. I"m probably not the only who is tired of reading your posts on this, even before today. Just leave it up to the Captain.


It was my understanding that the top 2 rule was carried over from last years team selections.

John Murray, I have to read your banging on daily but don"t complain about you.!!  You are not even part of the team involved but still get involved.


There was no such top 2 rule in previous years

Jon MW

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #93 on: July 17, 2010, 17:21:10 PM »




APAT announced the "top two" rule on 17 May, immediately received a lot of objections as people felt it would be top two from a very limited number of games and then said the same day that members" views would be taken into account. On 19 May they said that the rule was under review. Your claims about the rules being changed part-way through the season are misrepresenting the position and are unwarranted.

Carl, you have been banging on for ages about how you should be entitled to a place on the basis of a single (very good) result. I"m probably not the only who is tired of reading your posts on this, even before today. Just leave it up to the Captain.


It was my understanding that the top 2 rule was carried over from last years team selections.

John Murray, I have to read your banging on daily but don"t complain about you.!!  You are not even part of the team involved but still get involved.


There was no such top 2 rule in previous years


Why bring it in and take it out then ?  


Last year some people suggested it wasn"t right that the rankings weren"t taken into account when teams were chosen, rather than change the rules mid way through the season APAT kept it as it entirely being down to the captain"s prerogative.

They introduced it this year, and people pointed out that whereas last year the team championships were at the end of the season and so had some kind of "meaning" to them, this year the team championships were mid way through the season and so somebody could be high up in the rankings after having one really good result - and with nations with fewer representatives, someone could be one of the top 2 ranked people of that nation after having only one mediocre result.

So it would have worked last year when we didn"t have it, and doesn"t work this year when we did.

The APAT rankings are a prime piece of evidence for the National Captain"s to base their choices on, so it seems unlikely that current and previous years performances wouldn"t be taken into account. Rather than the rankings being specified as a selection criteria (as they will be used as such anyway) there might in future be some wording along the line of, past and present APAT National Champions will be the first players considered to represent their countries.

Considered - not automatically selected - so if you win an APAT national Championship you are likely to be included in your National team, but if you don"t do well you"re not necessarily going to be picked again. This way APAT performance will be a key criteria, but without binding National Captains to decisions which they might not think are in the best interest of their Country"s Team.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 17:25:44 PM by Jon MW »
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Jon MW

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #94 on: July 17, 2010, 17:21:56 PM »
Did you delete your post, or am I being blind?
Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
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Hammerite

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #95 on: July 17, 2010, 17:42:25 PM »
Jon I did delete it as it seemed a rather superfluous question given the information contained on the previous 7 pages, however I do thank you for your detailed and concise response.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 20:25:20 PM by Hammerite »
S2 Irish OL Gold, WCOLAP Main Gold
S4 UK Silver, Scots Silver
S5 WCOLAP Omaha Bronze
S6 WCOLAP Omaha 2nd, WCOLAP Omaha H/L 3rd
S7 English OL Omaha 3rd, Irish Bronze
S8 Irish OL Silver, WCOAP Stud Silver, WCOAP Horse Gold
S9 WCOLAP Bounty k/o 1st
S10 Euro OL Bronze
S12 Scots OL Silver
T: Eng/Apat

Jon MW

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #96 on: July 17, 2010, 17:55:20 PM »

John I did delete it as it seemed a rather superfluous question given the information contained on the previous 7 pages, however I do thank you for your detailed and concise response.


Thanks, I asked about being blind - but really I was more relieved that I wasn"t just going crazy (always more of a concern for me  :-\ )
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APAT

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #97 on: July 17, 2010, 19:43:24 PM »
Will the England team be bringing WAGS to Nottingham, as we"re considering introducing Page 3 to the magazine.

Joking aside, team spirit is a very important part of succeeding in this event, so I would suggest a more relaxed approach to debating selection would be sensible.

I trust Brian to make the right decisions in putting the England team together and when several national champions have yet to represent their countries in this event, it is clear that no single result should determine positions. 
APAT regularly introduce "rules" during a season with full knowledge that they may get debated.  We always listen to member opinion but ultimately we make the final decision on where appropriate.  The suggestion that we bowed to pressure is wrong.  The right decision was made I believe.

With that said, I"d love to see Don and Carl selected.  They are both long term and loyal APAT members but as such, both will fully understand how APAT works.

I"d appreciate if we could now move on a little and give the Captain some time to think.

TheSnapper

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #98 on: July 17, 2010, 19:57:34 PM »
Contentious issue this and thankfully so, it shows that we are passionate about the event and keen to participate. I wasn"t in favour of the proposed rule myself and expressed that view early. My position remains, if the desired outcome for a team selection system is to pick the best team! using criteria for qualification from a small sample is meaningless and is not aligned with that desired outcome at all. However I do understand that some individual aspirations have taken a hit and not a trivial hit either.

Reading this thread reminded of this quote.

"To be proven wrong should be celebrated, for it is elevating someone to a new level of understanding"

PS. Murray is in no way a cert and will need to stay on his toes ;D ;D
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 19:59:58 PM by TheSnapper »
"Being wrong is erroneously associated with failure, when, in fact, to be proven wrong should be celebrated, for it elevates someone to a new level of understanding."

TheSnapper

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #99 on: July 18, 2010, 11:52:23 AM »


Oh and John as much as I respect you both as a player and a gentleman, Carl is entitled to voice his opinion on the forum and I suggest that if you are fed up with him banging on then don"t bother reading this particular thread. After all I am sure that your place on the Irish Team is very secure.  ;)


In a rankings based selection process I think John may well secure a place in any team  ;)
"Being wrong is erroneously associated with failure, when, in fact, to be proven wrong should be celebrated, for it elevates someone to a new level of understanding."

PHIL_TC

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #100 on: July 19, 2010, 11:21:32 AM »


With that said, I"d love to see Don and Carl selected.  They are both long term and loyal APAT members but as such, both will fully understand how APAT works.



+1 hope you both make it
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CnadnBvr

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #101 on: July 19, 2010, 23:42:30 PM »
who are some of the other Canadian players on the forum ?? Does anyone know. Des??  

Thanks
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Shogun112

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #102 on: July 19, 2010, 23:53:41 PM »

who are some of the other Canadian players on the forum ?? Does anyone know. Des??  

Thanks



Yes, there is a thread somewhere looking for Canadians...  zzBlizzardzz is ya man...

Here it is...

http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?topic=5317.0
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 23:56:17 PM by Shogun112 »
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APAT

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #103 on: July 20, 2010, 09:40:19 AM »
I"m organising the contact Michael.

Cheers,

Des.

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Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
« Reply #104 on: July 21, 2010, 09:16:28 AM »

who are some of the other Canadian players on the forum ?? Does anyone know. Des??  

Thanks



Hi Bvr, there"s me and Canuk as far as I know.
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