thoughts please.....

[pokernuts07]

Did I play this badly on after the flop? I thought I had the odds to call with up down straight draw. $280 into $680. He made it far to cheap on the turn and I hit the river. He did not like the call on the flop....thoughts please:

Table #29430509 - STT #17823018
Starting Hand #1383342240
Start time of hand: 07 Jul 2010 21:46:31
Last Hand #1383340468
Game Type: HOLD"EM
Limit Type: NO LIMIT
Table Type: TOURNAMENT
Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS
Blinds are now $20/$40
Button is at seat 5
Seat 1: Faltop1 - $1,600
Seat 2: DerboyPKR - $1,360
Seat 3: pokernuts07 - $1,400
Seat 4: anaki47 - $1,200
Seat 5: gertvdijk - $3,440
Moving Button to seat 1
DerboyPKR posts small blind ($20)
pokernuts07 posts big blind ($40)
Shuffling Deck
Dealing Cards
Dealing [ ] to pokernuts07
anaki47 calls $40
gertvdijk raises to $120
Faltop1 folds
DerboyPKR calls $120
pokernuts07 calls $120
anaki47 folds
Dealing Flop [ Th ]
DerboyPKR bets $280
pokernuts07 calls $280
gertvdijk folds
Dealing Turn []
DerboyPKR bets $120
pokernuts07 calls $120
Dealing River []
DerboyPKR checks
pokernuts07 bets $600
DerboyPKR has requested more time
DerboyPKR is using the time bank
DerboyPKR: QK ?
DerboyPKR is thinking.
DerboyPKR has 3 seconds remaining in the time bank
DerboyPKR calls $600
pokernuts07 shows [ ]
pokernuts07 has Straight, King high
DerboyPKR shows [As Td]
DerboyPKR has One Pair:
pokernuts07 wins $2,400 with: Straight, King high

[bigredders]

Standard, standard and standard some more, he is an idiot just upset you outdrew him

Nothing more to say here

[pokernuts07]

Standard, standard and standard some more, he is an idiot just upset you outdrew him

Nothing more to say here

Great, that"s what I thought but just wanted to check. 

Thanks for reply.

[noble1]

pokernuts as long as u were thinking about future streets, yours/opponent chip stacks and what your opponent/s was going to do later [reads], then fine if u had a plan... if not , then u played it very weak... STD?  yes std weak ...

Cmon APAT regs , get writing/typing and help pokernut out here please... do u think this is std?

gg
noble

[LongshanksED]

I agree villian bet small on the turn. But it"s your 280 to win 960. 3/1 on 1 street to come should still be enough to make you fold your straight draw. That said I"d gave called also.

Even if you hit your overcard, you dont know if one pair is good.

[deanp27]

I agree villian bet small on the turn. But it"s your 280 to win 960. 3/1 on 1 street to come should still be enough to make you fold your straight draw. That said I"d gave called also.

Even if you hit your overcard, you dont know if one pair is good.

folding the flop would be ridiculous with OESD and two overs. You played it fine because of opponents terrible/weak betsizing but against some opponents i would probably just raise/get it in on flop with stacks this shallow.

[Marty719]

Meh - I jam flop the vast majority of the time w/ these stack sizes.

[Mikeyboy9361]

I agree villian bet small on the turn. But it"s your 280 to win 960. 3/1 on 1 street to come should still be enough to make you fold your straight draw. That said I"d gave called also.

Even if you hit your overcard, you dont know if one pair is good.

folding the flop would be ridiculous with OESD and two overs. You played it fine because of opponents terrible/weak betsizing but against some opponents i would probably just raise/get it in on flop with stacks this shallow.

This.

[AMRN]

First off, I would never have flat called here preflop in a STT SNG when stacked with just 35xBB.  With one raise in front I would snap fold KQ. With one raise and two calls in front, I would consider shoving to squeeze.

As played though, when you catch an open-ender plus two overs, flat calling is so spewy.... if you miss turn and river, you"ve just wasted half your stack, and have very little FE left. Jam the flop and hope to take it down there and then - if called, you have several outs.  You will either be out, or healthily stacked - much better than sitting on a micro stack and probably having to shove the rest in a much worse spot than this.

In a STT SNG - imo, Fold KQ pre in an opened pot - preserve chips for the shoving stage.

[pokernuts07]

pokernuts as long as u were thinking about future streets, yours/opponent chip stacks and what your opponent/s was going to do later [reads], then fine if u had a plan... if not , then u played it very weak... STD?  yes std weak ...

Cmon APAT regs , get writing/typing and help pokernut out here please... do u think this is std?

gg
noble

PM sent

[Marty719]

First off, I would never have flat called here preflop in a STT SNG when stacked with just 35xBB.  With one raise in front I would snap fold KQ. With one raise and two calls in front, I would consider shoving to squeeze.

As played though, when you catch an open-ender plus two overs, flat calling is so spewy.... if you miss turn and river, you"ve just wasted half your stack, and have very little FE left. Jam the flop and hope to take it down there and then - if called, you have several outs.  You will either be out, or healthily stacked - much better than sitting on a micro stack and probably having to shove the rest in a much worse spot than this.

In a STT SNG - imo, Fold KQ pre in an opened pot - preserve chips for the shoving stage.

KQ IS THE NUTS!!!

[AMRN]

pokernuts as long as u were thinking about future streets, yours/opponent chip stacks and what your opponent/s was going to do later [reads], then fine if u had a plan... if not , then u played it very weak... STD?  yes std weak ...

Cmon APAT regs , get writing/typing and help pokernut out here please... do u think this is std?

gg
noble

PM sent

Out of interest, why take the discussion to a PM?  surely the whole idea of the forum academy section is to keep the discussed thread open for all?

[AMRN]

KQ IS THE NUTS!!!

KQ is the 26th best starting hand

[pokernuts07]

First off, I would never have flat called here preflop in a STT SNG when stacked with just 35xBB.  With one raise in front I would snap fold KQ. With one raise and two calls in front, I would consider shoving to squeeze.

As played though, when you catch an open-ender plus two overs, flat calling is so spewy.... if you miss turn and river, you"ve just wasted half your stack, and have very little FE left. Jam the flop and hope to take it down there and then - if called, you have several outs.  You will either be out, or healthily stacked - much better than sitting on a micro stack and probably having to shove the rest in a much worse spot than this.

In a STT SNG - imo, Fold KQ pre in an opened pot - preserve chips for the shoving stage.

Thanks Steve.  Hmmm....not sure I agree/good enough to fold KQ on a 6 seater SNG.  Maybe a squeeze play would have been better than a call but never folding.

Agree now that the flat call on the flop is weak and tbh not my normal play at all, would normally shove but I think I was tilting a bit from not hitting previous draws and decided to call as the odds looked good.  Saying that, the odds is where I do struggle and probably didn"t take into account that I might not have seen 2 cards.

Another point re stack sizes.  Can we really take this into account at this stage - early on and most are all on about 1500?  Can understand if someone was heavily stacked or short but as we were about the same and you only start with 1500 each.  

[pokernuts07]

pokernuts as long as u were thinking about future streets, yours/opponent chip stacks and what your opponent/s was going to do later [reads], then fine if u had a plan... if not , then u played it very weak... STD?  yes std weak ...

Cmon APAT regs , get writing/typing and help pokernut out here please... do u think this is std?

gg
noble

PM sent

Out of interest, why take the discussion to a PM?  surely the whole idea of the forum academy section is to keep the discussed thread open for all?

Was replying to a PM sent by noble in addition to his reply on this thread - it was just more detailed that"s all.