Folding Kings pre flop

[Waz1892]

10,000 chips - level one.  Easy fold.

Maybe why i go out before the break!!..

Presuming the stacks are equal at all times when this happens... why does the early stage matter with Pocket KK....I see know difference in calling 1st hand to 45th hand. Your in a great postition with KK, the only thing that your saying is stopping you is you"ll wait for a better postition...than what?..you have KK!  

With great respect Daniel, as your a far better player than me, I"m trying to learn all the time, so would like to view my point and get comments...(bracing himself..)

[kinboshi]

The reason I fold KK first-hand in a deepstack tournament is because of the other player"s range.

I put him on AA.  That"s the only "range" that makes sense to me. 

Later in a tournament, a shove doesn"t necessarily mean a monster starting-hand.  If someone is short, they might be pushing with lots of pocket pairs, or a big ace.  Therefore, I"m beating a lot of those hands with my KK and the maths dictates the call.   Those that are advocating the call on the first hand with KK are assuming that the person who shoves has a wider range than AA.  That"s the only point we disagree on.

By the way.  First hand of an APAT regional, I call the shove with KK.

[kinboshi]

...oh and many (most?) would argue about me being any good.  I"d be one of them!

[Jon MW]

Regarding KK - maybe you could tell me what you would have done in my place last week at Walsall.
Last hand before dinner - got KK - raised to 2000 (blinds 300-600) - bb called (had shown earlier he knocked people off hands by going all-in several times - mainly with the inferior hand) - flop all low with two diamonds - he pushes all-in - I call and he has 10 Q diamonds (fishing!!!!) - turn is diamond (of course!) and my only hope is another diamond to give the bigger flush, which doesn"t of course happen.

Did I play this "right" or should I
a) have raised more or
b) folded to the all-in ?

Thanks for the replies - I had 5700 left after the 2000 raise and he had a little more - thought I was ahead (which I was) but........

It"s not necessarily the easy thing, or what I would end up doing. But in theory I think shoving all in would have been the right play.

If he had called your all in pre flop with that hand then he has made a mistake, this doesn"t really make you feel any better when you"ve just been knocked out though.

And if he folds to your your all in, you won"t be able to get rid of the nagging feeling that you could have got more chips out of the hand if you hadn"t just shoved.

But, in theory with blinds that high and a stack that low then I think it should be an all in pre flop.

[Shy Talk]

Thanks - will try to remember next time!!

[kinboshi]

This will amuse a few people.

I"m playing in a 180-seater SNG on Stars.  $20 one.  I like these because one"s never far away, they don"t last too long, and they"re not the hardest tournaments in the world to cash in (to final table and win takes a bit more).

Anyway,  first hand I"m on the button with .  Three limpers, and I decide to limp along and play the flop.  The SB raises it up and two of the limpers call, as do I.

Flop is  :: .

Small blind shoves for his remaining 1,300 or so.  The next player calls, the next folds, and then it"s to me.  I have to call as I"m definitely ahead at this stage.

The SB shows  ad  ks
The other player shows  qh

Obviously the turn is the  kh and the board fails to pair and so I"m out.  First hand.

[Mikeyboy9361]

Shame they weren"t ks, you"d have laid "em down

[kinboshi]

Exactly!

On that board I would have laid them down.