APAt Has lost it

[Jon MW]

I haven"t had any problems at all this evening.  Can I ask some questions that might help diagnose the problem:

1.  How much RAM does your computer have?
2.  Who is your ISP (Internet Service Provider)?
3.  What other software have you got running at the same time as BlueSQ?

You"re not the only one to suffer from issues with the software.  The others who"ve struggled with it have often only had 512KB of memory (or even less). 

It could also be an issue with your ISP, but that"s more difficult to pin down.

Did anyone else have a problem tonight?

I think the problem that gets highlighted specifically to do with ipoker is that these problems can arise on ipoker because you"re lacking system memory, and they could be connected with your ISP - but, on other sites with the same system memory and the same ISP they don"t happen.

I think the emphasis should be on ipoker to make their system more effective and efficient rather than on their users to make changes to compensate for this network"s deficiencies.

[RioRodent]

Not being funny, but why doesn"t everyone have these problems?  The iPoker software seems to be very heavily memory intensive - far more so than other poker rooms.

I have had intermittent problems with ipoker as well, although none last night.

I have certainly had the situation where I had raised pre-flop with AA, the bet was shown in the chat and graphcally on the table... the software then froze for 20-30 secs and when it started again I had folded - still pre-flop!!  

[APAT]

It always concerns me to see see a thread of this kind, because I genuinely do not like to see any of our members unhappy with their APAT experience. 

There are two queries here I guess, one relating to iPoker and one relating to the standard of play. 

The iPoker one I will refer to our partners at Blue Square and feedback on their thoughts. 

The standard of play query is in some respects more difficult.  I was unable to watch last night as I was away all day but I have viewed many tables online this season and have found the atmosphere very jovial and the quality of play very good.  As you would expect, the standard of play will become more variable as we grow.  But I also think that as people begin to get to know one another under their new BSQ player ids, that quality play will come to the fore again.  I do know that we are appealing to new players as an organisation, so we should not disuade them from joining.  Please also bear in mind that fishy, aggressive moves are seen at WSOP, WPT and EPT events too - it"s part of the game, and there were plenty of them made during Season One!

I think there is a real danger that each tournament takes too long now.  That may also increase the number of players who; while wanting to take part, have no real ambition to be around past midnight, impacting their game strategy.

But thanks for the post and I hope that you can have some more positive experiences in online games with us going forward.

[nosey-p]

I play differently on a Thursday than a Saturday because of the length of the game. Does this make me a bad player? I will call/raise with a much wider range of hands hoping to get chips earl, not wanting to play for 5 hours then bubble. The Thursday game should be given some thought about the starting chips and structure but keep the Saturday as it is

Any thoughts?        

[wolfey]

Hi
I totally agree with you Blue Square poker site suffers from a lot of connection problems. I lost a few hands which i would have won and was folded by timeouts. I play ladbrokes poker and have never had a single connection problem. It has nothing to do with my Pc as it is a brand new top of the range laptop with 2Gb of Ram.

[coprey]

I have been surprised by the standard of play of some players, but I am extremely happy to welcome these players to my table. If I get raised all in by a player with KQ when I hold AA I am very happy even if the flop comes KxQ then turn K, ill not mention any names. Last night I flop trips raise, am reraised, I re-reraise allin and am called by a player holding a pair of 7"s to win a massive pot, again i"ll mention no names. I also came across some excellent players, so it pays to keep your wits about you and concentrate on who is doing what. This is how Phil Hellmuth has won so many bangles. Besides all this I have found the games to be very good natured and friendly, well done APAT.

[RioRodent]

Since it is APAT's aim to provide Good Value, Well Structured tournaments for it"s members I think there are a couple of things that should be considered...

Good Value does not necessarily mean cheap to enter.

Well Structured does not necessarily mean more chips and/or longer clocks.

I"m afraid I"m probably one of those being refferred to as making loose calls and generally bad plays in these APAT online tournaments... Not because I"m a bad player, but because I just can"t get excited about a $10 tournament - that is less than a fiver!!

Add to the [too] low buy-in the awful BlSq structure, without antes, and then 5000 chips and a 15 min clock and you end up with a 6 hour tournament where the winner only gets $500 - $600.

I guess, if I"m honest, the only reason I enter these is because the buy-in is so low... not because I expect to win or even get any return on my time and money... and certainly not because I see it as a "Good Value, Well Structured" tournament.

I know there are those who will say that it"s not all about the money... but the title and the medals and the ranking points and that"s all very comendable for those that actually believe that. But just because we are amateurs doesn"t mean that the time and money are not important to us... they certainly are to me.

Just my humble opinions.


PS. Please lets have less chips (3000) for the satellites!

[Jon MW]

... you end up with a 6 hour tournament where the winner only gets $500 - $600.
...

It also depends on your perspective on whether the word "only" belongs in that statement.

$500 - $600 for 6 hours work, so around £40 - £50 per hour.

Based on a 35 hour week, as a wage that would put you on an annual income of around £75k to £90k a year.

The majority of everybody I know would be more than happy with that kind of level.

I would say "good value" means cheap to enter for how "well structured" the tournament is.

If "well structured" doesn"t mean more chips and longer clocks what does it mean?
(you don"t need to mention antes - I"ve already got that and I agree, but what else?)

[Shy Talk]

Must admit that I get frustrated with blue square, not from a connection point of view as I don"t appear to have much trouble with that, but from a "bad beat" perspective. I seem to constantly lose with much the best hand (although as someone has previously said, I may be on a bad run - but it"s lasting a long time  :"()

I"ll still play though because I know you get exactly the same playing live - I went out 149th in Walsall with KK against all-in and lost to a flush!!!! - that"s poker!! - and also why we play it!!

[Paulie_D]

... you end up with a 6 hour tournament where the winner only gets $500 - $600.
...

It also depends on your perspective on whether the word "only" belongs in that statement.

$500 - $600 for 6 hours work, so around £40 - £50 per hour.

Based on a 35 hour week, as a wage that would put you on an annual income of around £75k to £90k a year.

The majority of everybody I know would be more than happy with that kind of level.

I would say "good value" means cheap to enter for how "well structured" the tournament is.

If "well structured" doesn"t mean more chips and longer clocks what does it mean?
(you don"t need to mention antes - I"ve already got that and I agree, but what else?)

Jon, I agree with everything you say but there is another element to "Structure" and that is the Blind Levels...it"s all very well having more time and chips but if the leaps in the blind structure are huge, it turns into a shove-fest in no time.

I don"t know that the BSq levels are good or bad..but there is a 3rd element over and above the two you mention.

[phudsoni]

It is an interesting discussion.  It is well known and widely accepted that there are different calibre players on different networks and in many ways this seems to be stake agnostic.  I have played some great players at a $10 buy in and some awful ones at a $50 buy so in short I doubt that by lowering the entry stake you will have encouraged a whole host of "looser" players.  I personally encourage more people to take up this amazing game and given the very friendly and personable nature of most of the APAT players it is a great way to experience MTT"s for the first time.  If these new players happen to be making loose calls and causing bad beats then as many people have already commented on statistics will always prove that it is short term. Given that it is only £5 I really have no problem with loosing my pocket rockets to 72o - it sucks but thats Poker.  Chances are that 80% of the time I am going to win these battles.

Whilst I think that the APAT tour is a fantasic Poker series I do agree with the time issues - not on the diary format but on the length of tournament.  Unfortunately I played for nearly 4 hours last night and went out in 32nd spot (gutted) and whilst going out on the bubble is disappointing it is compounded further by the time taken to get there and it isnt as a result of tight poker.  I think deep stack works but I question the blind limits.  If they were brought down to 10 minute intervals then we reduce the game (hopefully) by 30% which turns 12pm into 10:30-11pm.  So thoughts on this would be massively appreciated.

Keep it up though - with some tweaks here and there I think BlSq APAT tournaments could rival the Pokerstars year.

[Jon MW]

...

I would say "good value" means cheap to enter for how "well structured" the tournament is.

If "well structured" doesn"t mean more chips and longer clocks what does it mean?
(you don"t need to mention antes - I"ve already got that and I agree, but what else?)

Jon, I agree with everything you say but there is another element to "Structure" and that is the Blind Levels...it"s all very well having more time and chips but if the leaps in the blind structure are huge, it turns into a shove-fest in no time.

I don"t know that the BSq levels are good or bad..but there is a 3rd element over and above the two you mention.

Thanks, it was a genuine question, I wanted to know what I was missing.

In terms of the current structure I think introducing antes would help a lot, I"m not sure there"s too much wrong with the other factors but a lot of it is a subjective judgment anyway.

[RioRodent]

... you end up with a 6 hour tournament where the winner only gets $500 - $600.
...

It also depends on your perspective on whether the word "only" belongs in that statement.

$500 - $600 for 6 hours work, so around £40 - £50 per hour.

Based on a 35 hour week, as a wage that would put you on an annual income of around £75k to £90k a year.

The majority of everybody I know would be more than happy with that kind of level.

So last night"s winner is on £75+ p.a. playing poker? You think it is possible for someone to win one $10 / 200 runner MTT every day?

I would say "good value" means cheap to enter for how "well structured" the tournament is.

If "well structured" doesn"t mean more chips and longer clocks what does it mean?
(you don"t need to mention antes - I"ve already got that and I agree, but what else?)

I know you shouldn"t answer a question with a question, but...

Currenlty we have a $10 + $1 buy-in tourney, with appx 200 runners... with 5000 chips and a 15 min clock it takes about 6 hrs to win about $600.

Suppose we change this to 10000 chips and it now tales 10 hrs to win the same $600... would you consider this to be a better structure?

Don"t get me wrong, I"m not an advocate of short stack crapshoots. I an all in favour of having enough chips to play with. It is just my opinion that a starting stack of 250 BBs isn"t necessary... 3000 chips (150 BBs) would be plenty.

By comparison... The live national champs start with 10k chips and 25/50 blinds - 150 BBs - and appx 20 hands/level... I think most agree this an excellent structure; the regionals 3k chips - 60 BBs - appx 15 hands/level... still very playable.

Playing good poker isn"t all about waiting for big hands.

[RioRodent]

...

I would say "good value" means cheap to enter for how "well structured" the tournament is.

If "well structured" doesn"t mean more chips and longer clocks what does it mean?
(you don"t need to mention antes - I"ve already got that and I agree, but what else?)

Jon, I agree with everything you say but there is another element to "Structure" and that is the Blind Levels...it"s all very well having more time and chips but if the leaps in the blind structure are huge, it turns into a shove-fest in no time.

I don"t know that the BSq levels are good or bad..but there is a 3rd element over and above the two you mention.

Thanks, it was a genuine question, I wanted to know what I was missing.

In terms of the current structure I think introducing antes would help a lot, I"m not sure there"s too much wrong with the other factors but a lot of it is a subjective judgment anyway.

Jon,

How do think antes would help?

[Jon MW]

... you end up with a 6 hour tournament where the winner only gets $500 - $600.
...

It also depends on your perspective on whether the word "only" belongs in that statement.

$500 - $600 for 6 hours work, so around £40 - £50 per hour.

Based on a 35 hour week, as a wage that would put you on an annual income of around £75k to £90k a year.

The majority of everybody I know would be more than happy with that kind of level.

So last night"s winner is on £75+ p.a. playing poker? You think it is possible for someone to win one $10 / 200 runner MTT every day?
...

My point was that £40 to £50 per hour seems pretty good from my point of view. Whether that"s for a days work or a years work is irrelevant.

As for the antes: you have to bear in mind that I"m a convert to the cause for antes, so I"m essentially trying to restate the argument that persuaded me (ie I might get it a bit wrong - so don"t be too harsh if it doesn"t entirely "work").

But I think it means that towards the latter stages of the tournament, because there are the extra chips available from the antes this means that people will be more inclined to bet and try to get them rather than passively sit back and wait for their big hands. I think there was more to it than that - but I think the gist was it creates more action and less people trying to fold their way to the money which can unbalance the structure as well as making it last longer.