To call or not to call - that is the question

[PantsMan]

DTD £50 deepstack this weekend. Can"t recall exact numbers but a hand came up that really made me think. Just wondered what others opinions were.

My stack is about 27k. Blinds are 200-400, 50 ante.

A guy who has raised 3xbb whenever he"s raised suddenly raises 5x to 2000. I"m on the button and elect to call with A-10s as i"m putting him on a medium pair. Small blind folds and then big blind tanks for a bit and shoves all in for about 5.5k. The initial raiser insta-shoves for about 12k. Then it gets interesting....

Obviously i"m ready to throw my hand away. But then i look over and the guy who has shoved for 12k is so busy talking to the waitress he thinks i"ve folded and turns over his hand. Pocket 8"s. I immediately take my hand off my cards that were heading for the muck. I calculate the pot and it"s about 22k. I have to call 9k leaving me with 18k. But i don"t know what the big blind has. All i do know is he"s shoved already a few times and not been called.

So, do you call?

[bigredders]

With those odds there would be burn marks to follow my chips they would go in that quickly!

[AMRN]

call call call call call call call call, and then call some more

lose it, and you still have 15k behind.
call and win the side pot only, and you break even-ish
call and win the lot and you"re laughing

not folding for 2.4/1 when I can see the 88 hand


Hate the flat call pre though - flatting a 5x raise is pretty spewy in the long run

[George2Loose]

Fold pre.

Fold now.

[samuel_9]

Fold pre.

Fold now.

i would have called the 2k but not 12k... Y.... i would say the average stack is about  20k you have  got 27 .....more than the  average stack ..... you call 2000 and mis you still have 25k..... you call 12k and mis your below average .....i would say your behind BOTH players you have 2 get very lucky 2 win this hand ......this game its not all about gambling its about playing cards....... the games about biulding a nice stack and winning the tourney ...y risk 12k when the bbls are only 200and 400 you only have 2k in the pot.....y double someone up to 10k or even better 24k......play cards NOT a c r a p s h o ut

[AMRN]

Fold pre.

Fold now.

i would have called the 2k but not 12k... Y.... i would say the average stack is about  20k you have  got 27 .....more than the  average stack ..... you call 2000 and mis you still have 25k..... you call 12k and mis your below average .....i would say your behind BOTH players you have 2 get very lucky 2 win this hand ......this game its not all about gambling its about playing cards....... the games about biulding a nice stack and winning the tourney ...y risk 12k when the bbls are only 200and 400 you only have 2k in the pot.....y double someone up to 10k or even better 24k......play cards NOT a c r a p s h o ut

It"s also about taking the gamble in the right spots, and in this scenario, if the BB were to show up with another pocket pair lower than tens, folding ATs would actually be a really bad fold.... in fact, so long as the BB doesn"t have AT dominated (which I accept he could well do), then calling is absolutely correct here given the pot odds, and the risk/reward

[samuel_9]

Fold pre.

Fold now.

i would have called the 2k but not 12k... Y.... i would say the average stack is about  20k you have  got 27 .....more than the  average stack ..... you call 2000 and mis you still have 25k..... you call 12k and mis your below average .....i would say your behind BOTH players you have 2 get very lucky 2 win this hand ......this game its not all about gambling its about playing cards....... the games about biulding a nice stack and winning the tourney ...y risk 12k when the bbls are only 200and 400 you only have 2k in the pot.....y double someone up to 10k or even better 24k......play cards NOT a c r a p s h o ut

It"s also about taking the gamble in the right spots, and in this scenario, if the BB were to show up with another pocket pair lower than tens, folding ATs would actually be a really bad fold.... in fact, so long as the BB doesn"t have AT dominated (which I accept he could well do), then calling is absolutely correct here given the pot odds, and the risk/reward

i no what you are saying  about pot odds..... BUT thats like IF a wee word with a big meaning.....i usually agree with what you say in your posts but i dont think this is the right call after all i do think he will be dominated  he dosent need 2 gamble just my opinion but i would fold all day long y gamble when you dont have to

[Marty719]

side pots ftw - i prob call here as played but I never get here like this.  Flatting the 5x pre is not good!  3b or fold.

[AMRN]

Fold pre.

Fold now.

i would have called the 2k but not 12k... Y.... i would say the average stack is about  20k you have  got 27 .....more than the  average stack ..... you call 2000 and mis you still have 25k..... you call 12k and mis your below average .....i would say your behind BOTH players you have 2 get very lucky 2 win this hand ......this game its not all about gambling its about playing cards....... the games about biulding a nice stack and winning the tourney ...y risk 12k when the bbls are only 200and 400 you only have 2k in the pot.....y double someone up to 10k or even better 24k......play cards NOT a c r a p s h o ut

It"s also about taking the gamble in the right spots, and in this scenario, if the BB were to show up with another pocket pair lower than tens, folding ATs would actually be a really bad fold.... in fact, so long as the BB doesn"t have AT dominated (which I accept he could well do), then calling is absolutely correct here given the pot odds, and the risk/reward

i no what you are saying  about pot odds..... BUT thats like IF a wee word with a big meaning.....i usually agree with what you say in your posts but i dont think this is the right call after all i do think he will be dominated  he dosent need 2 gamble just my opinion but i would fold all day long y gamble when you dont have to

and if we are dominated by the BB"s hand, we are still racing with the 88 guy for a side pot which is bigger than the main pot, and for which we are still getting correct pot odds to call.

[deanp27]

the cold call is pretty bad in the first place. Given we have chipped up and we know what villain has i guess i would reluctantly call, although our equity may be reduced by the short stack having a bigger ace.

[samuel_9]

Fold pre.

Fold now.

i would have called the 2k but not 12k... Y.... i would say the average stack is about  20k you have  got 27 .....more than the  average stack ..... you call 2000 and mis you still have 25k..... you call 12k and mis your below average .....i would say your behind BOTH players you have 2 get very lucky 2 win this hand ......this game its not all about gambling its about playing cards....... the games about biulding a nice stack and winning the tourney ...y risk 12k when the bbls are only 200and 400 you only have 2k in the pot.....y double someone up to 10k or even better 24k......play cards NOT a c r a p s h o ut

It"s also about taking the gamble in the right spots, and in this scenario, if the BB were to show up with another pocket pair lower than tens, folding ATs would actually be a really bad fold.... in fact, so long as the BB doesn"t have AT dominated (which I accept he could well do), then calling is absolutely correct here given the pot odds, and the risk/reward

i no what you are saying  about pot odds..... BUT thats like IF a wee word with a big meaning.....i usually agree with what you say in your posts but i dont think this is the right call after all i do think he will be dominated  he dosent need 2 gamble just my opinion but i would fold all day long y gamble when you dont have to

and if we are dominated by the BB"s hand, we are still racing with the 88 guy for a side pot which is bigger than the main pot, and for which we are still getting correct pot odds to call.

y race your hourses don.t win very often. or do they?

[samuel_9]

Fold pre.

Fold now.

i would have called the 2k but not 12k... Y.... i would say the average stack is about  20k you have  got 27 .....more than the  average stack ..... you call 2000 and mis you still have 25k..... you call 12k and mis your below average .....i would say your behind BOTH players you have 2 get very lucky 2 win this hand ......this game its not all about gambling its about playing cards....... the games about biulding a nice stack and winning the tourney ...y risk 12k when the bbls are only 200and 400 you only have 2k in the pot.....y double someone up to 10k or even better 24k......play cards NOT a c r a p s h o ut

It"s also about taking the gamble in the right spots, and in this scenario, if the BB were to show up with another pocket pair lower than tens, folding ATs would actually be a really bad fold.... in fact, so long as the BB doesn"t have AT dominated (which I accept he could well do), then calling is absolutely correct here given the pot odds, and the risk/reward

i no what you are saying  about pot odds..... BUT thats like IF a wee word with a big meaning.....i usually agree with what you say in your posts but i dont think this is the right call after all i do think he will be dominated  he dosent need 2 gamble just my opinion but i would fold all day long y gamble when you dont have to

and if we are dominated by the BB"s hand, we are still racing with the 88 guy for a side pot which is bigger than the main pot, and for which we are still getting correct pot odds to call.

still not racing for 12k  when bbls are 200 an 400 sorry  thats just me

[deanp27]

]still not racing for 12k  when bbls are 200 an 400 sorry  thats just me

lol but you"ll call 2k off to fold the flop though?

[samuel_9]

]still not racing for 12k  when bbls are 200 an 400 sorry  thats just me

lol but you"ll call 2k off to fold the flop though?

2k from 27k ante much and who said i would fold  STOP FISHING

[Marty719]

i thnk flatting pre is the biggest mistake in this hand.

i dnt think calling or folding the shove is awful.

i think call is marginally better w/ remaining stack size, equity against 8"s, side pot, chance to knock out 2 players (would be good to know how many remaining/paid).