Author Topic: RAZZ poker  (Read 5796 times)

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The_rookie

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RAZZ poker
« on: November 15, 2007, 21:53:14 PM »
so I"m trying to learn about razz. it just seem like the guy with the worst hand wins right? any help will do
lets hear it for the duck's

Swinebag

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2007, 22:06:12 PM »
Pokerplayer mag did a series on horse and the razz bit was useful. you may be able to read it in the archive section (if it exists) online

better than that, PM JonMW. He is the 13th best razz player in the world. He"ll have some tips
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mal666

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2007, 22:25:12 PM »
jon mw isnt even the 13th best razz player in apat

Des_D

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2007, 22:34:19 PM »
To be fair.....APAT is bigger than the World  ;)

The_rookie

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2007, 00:27:05 AM »
he he he loving the apat banter
lets hear it for the duck's

Jon MW

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2007, 10:30:48 AM »
As the country"s leading representative of Razz poker {  ;D }I do sometimes feel it is my duty to lead the way in supporting the development of the game.

The idle APAT banter reminds me of a conversation I had with Andy Bloch while I was at the World Series, but there"s no time for that now  8)

Razz: the worst hand wins but straights and flushes don"t count.

Effectively that means that the 5th lowest card you have decides who wins.
e.g. A2349 loses to 45678 A mistake that some beginners make is to look at their lowest cards, but they"re no good if the last card in your hand is too high.

Obviously if the 5th lowest matches your opponents it goes to the 4th, 3rd cards etc.  and this is where your good "kickers" do come in.

As with all poker, starting hands and position are key. 

The starting hand requirements can get looser as the tournament progresses but a generally tight requirement is to start with three cards 8 or under, because there will be a lot of people who will go for 9 or under and/or 2 cards in that range - so you"ll start ahead of those.

You can only handle 2 "bad" cards so if you start off with one, and then get another one on 4th street you are going to need 5th, 6th and 7th to come out perfectly - in other words if you get two high cards (or you get paired) by 4th street you should fold. If it happens on 5th then you should probably fold but if your opponent"s are also looking in bad shape then it might be worth staying in.

Generally speaking you can try 3 ways of playing, (1) tight (2) loose (3) solid.

(1) tight: have really strict starting hands, check call the pot until you have a made hand and then jam the pot with as many raises as you can get away with.

(2) loose: have fairly strict starting hands, but primarily ensure that your up cards are beating your opponents and jam the pot all the time it looks like your ahead - even if it"s before you actually have a real hand.

(3) solid: play either of the 2 ways above depending on who is on the table. Good players will generally fold if it looks like they"re behind - so playing loose can take down quite a few pots. But, bad players tend to be calling stations in Razz so you have to play tight against them - but when you do make your hand they will still call all your raises. Obviously this is the best way to play but it does rely on you being able to work out who is capable of folding and who isn"t.

On a similar note, you can take advantage of position by bluffing opponents of a hand. This is best avoided with calling stations and is most effective when the bets double on 5th street.

This is a slightly haphazard mixture of my thinking on Razz, but it"ll do for now - if any magazine wants me to write a properly structured article on it, I have a very cheap going rate ;)
Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain  - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - Razz 2007 Champion
2007 WSOP Razz 13/341

Swinebag

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2007, 10:45:51 AM »
like it.

can I also add, that looking at and memorising shown cards is important.

e.g A 3 5 is great starting hand but will struggle to improve if the other 7 up cards and subsequent up cards are a mixture of 2"s, 4"s and 6"s, i.e your outs.

N.B. I never normally use e,g. and i.e. in the same sentence.

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Jon MW

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2007, 11:04:53 AM »

like it.

can I also add, that looking at and memorising shown cards is important.

....



To add to that - Razz is Stud Low - so a lot of general advice you see for stud (like what Swinebag says above) will apply for Razz.
Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain  - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - Razz 2007 Champion
2007 WSOP Razz 13/341

HaworthBantam

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2007, 12:22:37 PM »
Jon, will you be at the UK event in Manchester ?

Perhaps you could give a master-class once some of us have been eliminated, say about 3:30pm that Saturday afternoon....?  :D

In all seriousness, I wouldn"t mind having a go at the game. Unfortunately, I have no opportunity to play this variation of the game.

Jon MW

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2007, 12:23:50 PM »

Jon, will you be at the UK event in Manchester ?
...


:"(

I even won the seat in the regional tournament - but there"s just no way I can make it.
Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain  - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - Razz 2007 Champion
2007 WSOP Razz 13/341

RioRodent

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2007, 12:35:55 PM »

Jon, will you be at the UK event in Manchester ?

Perhaps you could give a master-class once some of us have been eliminated, say about 3:30pm that Saturday afternoon....?  :D

In all seriousness, I wouldn"t mind having a go at the game. Unfortunately, I have no opportunity to play this variation of the game.


I"ll be up for a Razz SnG... probably won"t be available til later Sunday evening though!  8)
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.

RoboSquirrel

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2007, 12:36:53 PM »

Effectively that means that the 5th lowest card you have decides who wins.
e.g. A2349 loses to 45678 A mistake that some beginners make is to look at their lowest cards, but they"re no good if the last card in your hand is too high.



The easiest way to look at a razz hand is from the 5th highest down..so in your example 94321 loses to 87654 (the lower number).

Also there is no 8 or better limit as in stud..

It does sometimes get complicated with paired hands.. clarification on how to rank those would be appreciated (I do know a "full house" is bad).

Razz is ultimately a game to destroy the soul but is great as part of a HORSE game especially when someone doesnt notice it has moved to Stud Hi  ::)

Rob
Part Man..Part Machine..Complete Idiot

Jon MW

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2007, 12:41:01 PM »

...
It does sometimes get complicated with paired hands...


It"s always the lowest hand wins - but if you have anything over Ace high then fold, unless you really have no choice (like you"ll only be left with less than an ante for example). Even then it"s irrelevant because you have to call with whatever you have and just hope that your opponent"s have hit really bad luck.
Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain  - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - Razz 2007 Champion
2007 WSOP Razz 13/341

Swinebag

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2007, 12:53:06 PM »


Effectively that means that the 5th lowest card you have decides who wins.
e.g. A2349 loses to 45678 A mistake that some beginners make is to look at their lowest cards, but they"re no good if the last card in your hand is too high.



This reminds me of an amusing experience in a razz tourney on stars.

I busted a guy with our hands similar to the 2 described above.

He went mental in the chat box, told me the site was broken. He had contacted customer support and was going to get the tourney stopped/his buyin back.

He justified it by saying that my hand added up to 30 and his added up to 19 so clearly had to be the winner.

In fact he was berating me and the whole table all the way to the final table, (i turned the chat off for a good hour and he was still there when i turned it back on to say gg to a player who had busted out) It was only a $8 tourney ffs.

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Rob, you are a genius.
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monkeyman

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Re: RAZZ poker
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2007, 18:25:58 PM »
I love playing Razz but its frustrating as no one except APAT and WSOP arrange live games. A couple of months back I asked one of the management of Planet Hollywood in Vegas why none of the casinos over there offered Razz and the reply was that there is no profit in it for them. Maybe if we started a petitition, we could change things ;D    
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