APAT Season 5: Discussion

[Jon MW]

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Less Non UK events - It is expensive enough to attend in the UK, without adding flights, and 3-4 days away, and I think 25% were overseas!

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It"s not quite so expensive for the people who live there though

[AJDUK]

The reality is, you need at least 15 starters to compete within the current format.

Walsall (top of div 1) haven"t yet managed 15 starters. The most we got is 13, the least 8. In fact we have one of the smallest player bases in our league, the difference being that we have a lot of regulars rather than fly by nights. Eg Liverpool have 40 players registered with ID"s, Walsall only 22.

As long as one team isn"t swamping the league with players we"re OK e.g when solent got 18 players in the next highest was 11. That"s tough to overcome in the current format, but it hasn"t been happening every week. TBH I"m not sure it can be fixed by messing with the points. It can sort of be fixed by not paying 18 places and I"m still very much against the change to 18 because it more favours the bigger teams than paying 9 does IMO. I can"t see what else can be done in the current format.

As for other things I"d rather scrap the pro league, or play it on the Sunday, so that it doesn"t take seats away from the ME"s which always seem to be over subscribed. However Sunday is a big day online for most of those guys.

I don"t like the Euro adventure events - I"m not gonna pay £500 to enter a £75 tourney that"s just barmy. I"m not convinced they bring many new APAT regulars, they just offer a great structure for locals in far off places. If these are gonna continue I don"t think APAT league points should be given out at them. It rewards those with deeper pockets. If the Euros are to continue then don"t do them all together with Aberdeen in the middle - this just created a dead summer for most of us.

Scrap the live feed unless it can be improved. The most frustrating experience was trying to follow what was going on at DTD. Don"t do it at the detriment of the live update thread, because this is our only permanent record and is much more interactive.

Payout structure - I find it hypocritical to do a standard payout structure in Europe but not here, and then claim that"s what the Euro locals want. I think most people want a standard structure here too. Having said that I"m in the minority that am happy how it is, though the 4th-3rd jump at DTD was a bit too steep IMO.

Satellites for UK events don"t need to be packaged, elsewhere should be.

I was dubious about Betfair but they have been brilliant. All except for their software which sucks as does whoever sets things up online which never seems to be right. Added value though cannot be faulted.

[Waz1892]

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Less Non UK events - It is expensive enough to attend in the UK, without adding flights, and 3-4 days away, and I think 25% were overseas!

...

It"s not quite so expensive for the people who live there though

Agree, but APAT is a UK poker association, and dare I say 95% of members within the UK... I understand it aspires to be more than that, and I fully support that, I"m just debating if more tournaments outside UK is really required at this stage when the majority of its members that play live are UK based.

[Des]

Can I just add that the "soon" Leigh refers to isn"t as "soon" as even my definition of the word "soon". That"s just to manage the expectations of those who will want this information before the end of January 2011.

The feedback to date is excellent though so please keep it coming.

Cheers

Des

[SirPercival]

Des,

What is the vision for APAT in the future?

Knowing this would help the discussion IMO.

e.g. the post above refers to APAT being a UK association. Is it?

Many people want to scrap the pro league, but I see a future in it if I have guessed the "vision" correctly.

My understanding of the leagues was that it was linked to future plans, is it?

[Chipaccrual]

Can I just add that the "soon" Leigh refers to isn"t as "soon" as even my definition of the word "soon". That"s just to manage the expectations of those who will want this information before the end of January 2011.

The feedback to date is excellent though so please keep it coming.

Cheers

Des

op adjusted

[allinbob2]

Des,

Would just like to say, the only thing I would change about APAT next year is the payout structure.  Oh and that I should be paid for advertising Betfair!!! LOL.  Keep up the great work guys.

Dave
aka allinbob2

[PHIL_TC]

Pro League
I see where APAT want to go with this but the attendance has not been as spectacular as they might have hoped. I"d rather see higher seat numbers at the £75 level.

Live Updates
I love the live feed, but it can take something away from the Live Updates thread but I think that Luton proved that, with willing help, both can co-exist. Perhaps incentivising people to assist in one or the other might be beneficial. Overall, I"d hate to lose either.

Agree with Paulie 100% with both these points

Live Schedule
Disagree with some of the points made re the forgeign trips (but then I"ve been fortunate to be able to afford them this year). If they"re not taking the place of any of the UK games and introducing APAT into the world then its all good. Perhaps some better scheduling to intersperse a little more, but personally i"d rather play these than the UK venues (other than DTD), and as money will be tighter next year I personally will be doing the non UK as a preference to the UK. Other than APAT I dont see any other way I could afford to travel to play poker for 2 days in some of the most beautiful places I"ve been lucky enough to visit and play in this year.

On this issue. Las Vegas in Season 5 please. Pretty please.

Betfair
Have been fantastic. Another season just like the one they"ve supported this year would be just perfect thankyou.

Day 2 payout only / Structure
I"d like to see a make day 2 and in the money structure if possible, but understand this cant always be acheived. Actualy payout structure I"m happy with to be honest.. but fully understand the pros and cons involved, I"d be happy whichever decision was made.

In summary I think APAT are doing a fantastic job, and nothing really needs serious looking at. Just more of the same please. Its really appreciated.

p.s. Las Vegas for season 5? Did I mention Vegas at all???

[AAroddersAA]

My opinions below


Payout structure could be more traditional, I would allow deal making for the cash only, not the added value.

Added value - obviously anything here is good this season has been great

Overseas events - Keep Dublin (if that counts) and at least one overseas event. Any others are a bonus and I would probably only go to Dublin and one more, like this season, same as most people.

Pro League - unsure why we need this. I think the $20,000 package could have been put to better use this year but that just me. It doesn"t seem to be that well supported though.

Satellite Structure is fine, leave as is. Packages are not required, Euro events are unlikely to get big enough fields to make it worthwhile.

Online league. Get rid of clubs that don"t get any players at all, ever but leave clubs that are currently building up (like Swansea). Maybe go down to two divisions.

A prize for the rankings winner? Obviously the current rankings leader this year is a luckbox so doesn"t deserve a prize but next season it would be good if there was a GUKPT seat or something. A CoC seat does not seem that special to me, the online rankings winner gets that and the GUKPT seat, again just my opinion.

Oh yean and if possible - obviously APAT Vegas

[WarBwastardo]

If the Pro league was to continue, then it goes without saying it needs to be promoted properly rather than just hoping people hear about it somehow.  I think it also ought to be No-limit as opposed to Pot-limit.

Would it not be possible to play the Pro-League events on Sunday instead of Saturday?  I know the final table would clash with the £75 but you could conceivably have them running simultaneously and have the live feed switching between the two tables..maybe alternating each levels or summat.. (two tables have usually been featured in the past with the live feed no?)

This would also free up table space for the £75 event on Saturday allowing the usual 200 runner fields instead of reduced 150 runner fields we saw in season 4, and give those bustees from Saturday another shot at a title on Sunday (budget permitting).

[AMRN]

...

Less Non UK events - It is expensive enough to attend in the UK, without adding flights, and 3-4 days away, and I think 25% were overseas!

...

It"s not quite so expensive for the people who live there though

Agree, but APAT is a UK poker association, and dare I say 95% of members within the UK... I understand it aspires to be more than that, and I fully support that, I"m just debating if more tournaments outside UK is really required at this stage when the majority of its members that play live are UK based.

I"m not bothered how many overseas events there are, so long as we maintain the current volume of UK based events..... that said, I don"t think the overseas events should give rankings points.... the attendance from UK based players is severely restricted by cost, and ability to afford should not be such a significant contributory factor to the rankings.

[TheSnapper]

The reality is, you need at least 15 starters to compete within the current format.

Walsall (top of div 1) haven"t yet managed 15 starters. The most we got is 13, the least 8. In fact we have one of the smallest player bases in our league, the difference being that we have a lot of regulars rather than fly by nights. Eg Liverpool have 40 players registered with ID"s, Walsall only 22.

As long as one team isn"t swamping the league with players we"re OK e.g when solent got 18 players in the next highest was 11. That"s tough to overcome in the current format, but it hasn"t been happening every week. TBH I"m not sure it can be fixed by messing with the points. It can sort of be fixed by not paying 18 places and I"m still very much against the change to 18 because it more favours the bigger teams than paying 9 does IMO. I can"t see what else can be done in the current format.

Fair point Andy and well done, stellar performance there. I suspect the problem is not as pronounced in the Premier league, a quick look at the current standings is quite revealing in that respect...

league 1   1 of 10 teams has Zero points
league 2   5 of 10 teams has Zero points
league 3   5 of 10 teams has Zero points

League 2 where I play and obviously understand best, the current standings are......

team                members          Pts total               Total players at final table

Luton               63                      11                                   14
Sunderland           41                       9                                   12
Nottingham           41                       8                                    9
Leeds                   37                       7                                   11
South London   41                       1                                    3
Dublin             19                       0                                    4
Sheffield           27                       0                                    1
Glasgow           29                       0                                    0
Plymouth           17                       0                                    0
Newcastle           20                       0                                    0

(Sorry if thats hard reading, don"t know how to align the numbers.)

Kinda speaks for itself.

[thinsy147]

[daveyb147]

BETFAIR                 superb sponsors and thanks for your support
PRO LEAGUE           not supported,so concentrate on main event
PAYOUT                  not too bothered,works for me as is,,but go with the flow,day one play
                             down to money,,,,NO DEALS !!!!
EURO EVENTS         personally i would prefer more uk events where the vast majority of
                             members come from,,what is the idea of these events ?? Are they
                             achieving what apat what them too ??.If so, i stand corrected.
LIVE FEEDS             love the live feed,compared with others our feed is great,,some sort
                             of edited highlights of each event would be good for future perusal.          

[MintTrav]

Far too top-heavy - designed with a view to giving all the points to the individual winner/second rather than it being a team game.

Top heavy? of course, surely 1st should be rewarded. Not Overly top heavy at ~30% to 1st and ~23% to 2nd, hardly amounts to "giving all the points" unless of course you are an accountant and can rationale that 53% is indeed categorically 100%.

How can that then equate to it no longer being a "Team game"

Okay, if we"re being pedantic, replace "all" with "most of". The point is that this proposal is designed to take away the team element and reward the top two disproportionately, while players further down the final table would receive negligible points. It is an extreme scheme, designed solely with the intention of favouring small teams.

With regard to the rest of your post, Brendan, I"m not going to respond.