A Fish and his Chips

[Mikeyboy9361]

The only negative comments I have read over the past day have been the queue of people looking to "shout down" those trying to have a discussion. 

After I posted on Ger"s blog and then mine I read recent posts and find this. I hope you don"t mind but I"m stealing this quote as it sums up how I feel about it.

All yours.  Trust me, I know how you feel.  But it will pass.  Des will have another announcement next week, that"s assuming he"s not been scared off after yesterday.  

I wouldn"t blame if he was! He works his little socks off bringing a great product to the members of APAT and then gets shouted down and criticised by a small section of the APAT comminity, that take the gloss off the announcement. He must wonder why he bothers sometimes!

[Paulie_D]

I wouldn"t blame if he was! He works his little socks off bringing a great product to the members of APAT and then gets shouted down and criticised by a small section of the APAT comminity, that take the gloss off the announcement. He must wonder why he bothers sometimes!

Odd...for a man with little socks, they"d be big shoes to fill!

[Chipaccrual]

Thanks Stu.

Unfortunately it did turn a bit "Nationalist", and that fogged over the real discussion, which to the best of my knowledge stemmed from some people raising issues around the whole Luton Team were going to split up.  I must add, all of the Luton guys that have posted come out of this smelling off roses in my opinion.  Mucho respecto.

As Mr Oliver said to me, "It"s all got a bit Scottish bashing", which is a shame.

I probably didn"t help that situation by "throwing my toys out of the pram", but am still a bit perplexed to why the ruling was put in place, as it was only going to alienate some people from playing, whereas having the "soft" approach would not impact on anyone.

[AMRN]

Good post Leigh (as usual).

I think some of this has come about due to the way some of the initial resistance was worded....  without quoting directly, the subtext in some posts suggested that if the rule was not changed to suit personal requirements, then some people would refuse to play. TBH it was that which got my goat, so to speak.    

My love of all things APAT is mostly due to it"s inclusive nature, and hearing some long standing APAT members refusing to participate in the flagship APAT league if rules weren"t set in their favour just didn"t feel right.

We"ve learned from previous experience over the past couple of seasons that rules are no good if they are not clear and fast, and at some point (usually in the shake up toward the end of season), somebody will find cause to complain if a rule is not adhered to in it"s entirety. It"s for that reason that I applaud Des" attempts to make a hard and fast ruling on what is quite obviously an emotive subject.

For what it"s worth, I think the rule as it is posted is the correct rule - but that"s just my opinion (although quite clearly the opinion of many others too).

We need to draw a line in the sand to define the ruling on team alignment - current living location is as good as any. We simply cannot afford to allow people to pick and choose their team, or we will just end up with "super teams" again, which will be further cause for complaint if such a super team were to go on and win the significant added value.  If we stretch it to say that certain people are allowed to play for the country of their birth, we would discriminate against others who may wish to play for the region of their birth (ie I was born on the South Coast, but live and play in West Mids). If we open up the country of birth angle, to remain fair to all, we would have to provide that option to all players, and we would simply create the free for all that needs to be avoided.

Lastly, as Des has iterated in numerous posts, and also in my own opinion, this is not an international tournament where we are representing our country or our nationality - it"s supposed to be a regional league where we represent the area in which we live and play our poker, and is a vehicle for us to spread the APAT word locally as we recruit within our local poker communities.   The international team events are elsewhere on the APAT calendar.

[Fatcatstu]

Lastly, as Des has iterated in numerous posts, and also in my own opinion, this is not an international tournament where we are representing our country or our nationality - it"s supposed to be a regional league where we represent the area in which we live and play our poker, and is a vehicle for us to spread the APAT word locally as we recruit within our local poker communities.   The international team events are elsewhere on the APAT calendar.

This is all i shall be posting now, if you dont mind steve, this sums up exactly my thoughts on the matter!

[Chipaccrual]

Appreciate you views Steve, and you are quite correct that it is not an International league.

I think I made an error of judgement when I posted that I wouldn"t play, even if I tried my best to put it in a positive way, and I certainly wouldn"t want anyone to think I was being critical of APAT, because I just wouldn"t.

The issue that I had, and still have, is that this is a continuation of a league format that has been running for two season now.  I think the improvements that have been made this year are fantastic and will only make it stronger.  We have always had a "relaxed" view on whether players play for their local team, or their hometown.  The most important thing being that they have some affiliation to it that makes them want to come back and play week after week.

My understanding is that due to some issues that have been raised surrounding the Luton team, a blanket rule has been put in place.  It seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut, or perhaps I"m being too simplistic about it.

I"ve raised my opinions that I think it should be reviewed.  Whatever the outcome is, that is ultimately the decision of APAT, and then players can choose to play as much as they choose to play.

It"s no different than the views on the structure.  I agree that potential finish time may put off some players from playing, but the exact structure has not yet been posted, so I"ve chosen not to comment on that until we know exactly what it will be.

I wish I"d not posted that I would not play, but at the time, that"s how I felt.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but anyone who knows me, should know that I"m APAT through and through, just perhaps a bit more on my terms now than I used to be.  

[Chipaccrual]

I am very upset by some of the comments made, mainly by people who are uneffected by the clarification Des posted yesterday morning.

Sorry Ger - don"t mean to hijack your blog thread, but need to quote Stuart"s answer to respond.

Stu - you suggest that most people are unaffected by the ruling.... I think you are wrong. Everyone is affected by it (unless they currently live in the region in which they were born).  If you as a Scot were allowed to choose to play for the Scotland region rather than the region in which you live, to keep a level playing field that grace would have to afforded to every other player in the league - everyone would then be laying claim to alternative regions based on their birth.......   the rule would be unmanageable and unpoliceable, at which point it becomes a nonsense rule.     By aligning all players to the region they currently reside in, the rule is enforcable, understandable, non-discriminatory, clear, and fair.

Steve, hope you don"t mind me nabbing this from Ger"s blog, but I wanted to post it on here, because you make a really valid point, one which I hadn"t really considered.

Starting to question what the best thing is now.  Isn"t debate great ?  

[Fatcatstu]

I am very upset by some of the comments made, mainly by people who are uneffected by the clarification Des posted yesterday morning.

Sorry Ger - don"t mean to hijack your blog thread, but need to quote Stuart"s answer to respond.

Stu - you suggest that most people are unaffected by the ruling.... I think you are wrong. Everyone is affected by it (unless they currently live in the region in which they were born).  If you as a Scot were allowed to choose to play for the Scotland region rather than the region in which you live, to keep a level playing field that grace would have to afforded to every other player in the league - everyone would then be laying claim to alternative regions based on their birth.......   the rule would be unmanageable and unpoliceable, at which point it becomes a nonsense rule.     By aligning all players to the region they currently reside in, the rule is enforcable, understandable, non-discriminatory, clear, and fair.

Steve, hope you don"t mind me nabbing this from Ger"s blog, but I wanted to post it on here, because you make a really valid point, one which I hadn"t really considered.

Starting to question what the best thing is now.  Isn"t debate great ?  

Redfern makes 2 valid points in 1 day shocker  

[Chipaccrual]

Clarification on the rules has been made, and although some will disagree, I think Des and those he sought for opinions have made the best decision for the success of the new league.

It always amazes me how through all the heated debate we end up in a stronger position.  If only we could find a way of getting there without everyone getting so worked up, or perhaps it needs the passion and the fact that people care for things to be reviewed and improved.

[Fatcatstu]

Clarification on the rules has been made, and although some will disagree, I think Des and those he sought for opinions have made the best decision for the success of the new league.

It always amazes me how through all the heated debate we end up in a stronger position.  If only we could find a way of getting there without everyone getting so worked up, or perhaps it needs the passion and the fact that people care for things to be reviewed and improved.

you going to pick your toys up now then?  

[Chipaccrual]

Clarification on the rules has been made, and although some will disagree, I think Des and those he sought for opinions have made the best decision for the success of the new league.

It always amazes me how through all the heated debate we end up in a stronger position.  If only we could find a way of getting there without everyone getting so worked up, or perhaps it needs the passion and the fact that people care for things to be reviewed and improved.

you going to pick your toys up now then?  

All neatly put away for another day.  

[Chipaccrual]

A Horse, A Horse, My Kingdom for A Horse

The rearranged Newbury meeting totally passed me by yesterday, even though I had planned to sit and watch some of the races and have a few small bets, so instead I"ve picked a few for this afternoon.

Haydock 18th Feb - 14:10 Backing: Thehillofuisneach
Ascot 18th Feb - 14:25 Backing: Penny Max
Haydock 18th Feb - 14:45 Backing: Featherbed Lane
Ascot 18th Feb - 15:00 Backing: Kauto Stone
Haydock 18th Feb - 15:20 Backing: Some Target
Ascot 18th Feb - 15:35 Backing: Eastlake

[AJDUK]

A Horse, A Horse, My Kingdom for A Horse

The rearranged Newbury meeting totally passed me by yesterday, even though I had planned to sit and watch some of the races and have a few small bets, so instead I"ve picked a few for this afternoon.

Haydock 18th Feb - 14:10 Backing: Thehillofuisneach
Ascot 18th Feb - 14:25 Backing: Penny Max
Haydock 18th Feb - 14:45 Backing: Featherbed Lane
Ascot 18th Feb - 15:00 Backing: Kauto Stone
Haydock 18th Feb - 15:20 Backing: Some Target
Ascot 18th Feb - 15:35 Backing: Eastlake

Don"t give up the day job - you need it to pay your gambling debts  

[Chipaccrual]

A Horse, A Horse, My Kingdom for A Horse

The rearranged Newbury meeting totally passed me by yesterday, even though I had planned to sit and watch some of the races and have a few small bets, so instead I"ve picked a few for this afternoon.

Haydock 18th Feb - 14:10 Backing: Thehillofuisneach
Ascot 18th Feb - 14:25 Backing: Penny Max
Haydock 18th Feb - 14:45 Backing: Featherbed Lane
Ascot 18th Feb - 15:00 Backing: Kauto Stone
Haydock 18th Feb - 15:20 Backing: Some Target
Ascot 18th Feb - 15:35 Backing: Eastlake

Don"t give up the day job - you need it to pay your gambling debts  

A shocking set of accumulator picks Andy.  Fortunately I had a number of other winners this afternoon, so I saw a £52 profit on my small stake bets, which is very nice.

Some of the above did actually run okay, honest  

[Chipaccrual]