Author Topic: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?  (Read 7637 times)

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AMRN

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Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« on: January 31, 2011, 08:41:33 AM »
A hand from the late stages of the APAT UK Team Champs that I understand was the cause of some debate on the Live Feed. I gather that my call was deemed to be bad, but at the time it felt right, and on reflection it still feels right. Thought I would post it here for review/comment.

Scenario is that we are at least two tables, and my team"s chances of a medal are gone, so I"m now playing for first and first only. I have 120k, with blinds at 3k/6k/a800.  I"ve not played a hand for at least two orbits on our 7 handed table, when this happens.

Folds to me in the CO, and I open for 16k with 22. Btn has 60k, SB has massive stack, and BB has short stack. I fold if btn or SB play back at me, not sure what to do if BB plays back. At this point, the raise is purely a position steal to try and keep some stack momentum.

Btn and SB folded, BB shoved.

Initial instinct is to fold, but ask for a count anyway. BB"s stack is 39k. So, the pot is 5.6k antes, 3k SB, 16k my bet, and 39k BB shove = 63.6k, and I need to call 23k more.

If I call and lose, I have 80k behind - around 13 bigs. I asked the BB how he felt about his hand, and from the response, I got a fairly solid read that I was against overcards rather than overpair.

So, going with my read, I"m in a 50/50 race with pot odds of nearly 3:1. To me that"s a call every time. If I"m unsure about my read, I may find a fold given that BB"s range could include all the overpairs..... however I was pretty sure about the read.

So - question is... make the mathematically correct call based on instinctual read about oppo"s range, or fold to preserve chips and tournament equity at this late stage and wait for a better spot?

call or fold?

« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 14:14:50 PM by AMRN »

MAIR

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2011, 10:01:58 AM »
CALL, 23k more to call after a 16k raise with a pp, no matter what they are, standard imo. Good call
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Mikeyboy9361

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2011, 10:41:56 AM »
Calling all day after the initial raise, I can understand anyone with AK, AQ, or AJ being aggrieved if they lose, but you have a pair, and at that stage prepared to race, fair enough in my book.
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PantsMan

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2011, 11:28:03 AM »
Call, 23k more into a pot that size. Chances are you're racing but you're easily getting the odds to do so. What was the issue people had who were saying it was bad?

MintTrav

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2011, 11:45:02 AM »
You"re having a laugh Steve.
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AMRN

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2011, 11:57:47 AM »

MintTrav

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2011, 12:08:06 PM »


You"re having a laugh Steve.


???


To clarify, I ain"t folding now in a month of Sundays.

The only criticism would be not deciding this before making the bet -
Quote

not sure what to do if BB plays back.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 17:00:16 PM by MintTrav »
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deanp27

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2011, 13:40:47 PM »
You should know the answer before you open. Raise/folding < 7bb with anything would be beyond terrible and should reportable as collusion IMO. Stack management ftw with 20 bigs
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deanp27

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2011, 13:51:11 PM »
Just to add you shouldn"t fold v the 10bb stack either
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Foggy

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2011, 16:23:14 PM »
Definately call, you have the odds, your basically committed, you are a luckbox

Everything is in your favour

ian.ski309

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2011, 16:44:07 PM »
The dynamics of this hand were possibly more complex than you"ve presented them Steve. For a start I"m assuming (rightly or wrongly), that you know your opponent"s game pretty well by now. Secondly, you asked him, "Have you got me out-kicked ?" to which he answered, "Call me and find out." Judging by all the stares/glares across the table I sensed that there was maybe some history between you.

On a "purely poker" basis, it"s a call every time.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 18:59:57 PM by ian.ski309 »
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mousebob

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2011, 23:34:31 PM »
No problem with the call here.
As an aside I"m either shoving or folding pre !
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George2Loose

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2011, 23:56:54 PM »
calling almost any two here and we"re debating when we have a pair?
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AMRN

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2011, 07:47:31 AM »

No problem with the call here.
As an aside I"m either shoving or folding pre !


with 20 bigs, and a huge stack in the SB?

samuel_9

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Re: Hand from APAT Team Champs - call a shove with 22?
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2011, 09:54:37 AM »
imo you played it perfect ........... did u win the hand