Chat Abuse

[Swinebag]

that seems wrong....liying about your hand and getting penalised

My take on this is:

If you ask someone what they have because you want a read then they have the right to lie/tell the truth/do whatever they want. You did after all start the mind games

If you are thinking/tanking about a decision and they then start lying/telling the truth/whatever about their cards then this is out of order and should be penalised.

The devil is in the detail here, to quote tighty

APAT Rule 57

Verbal declarations as to the content of a player?s hand are not binding; however at the Tournament Director?s discretion, any player deliberately declaring or miscalling his hand may be penalised.

So by being asked what you have and then replying, you are not deliberately declaring your hand

[kinboshi]

...and yet within the APAT rules I"m sure it allows you to expose your cards when facing an all-in bet and you"re the only one to act (a rule I completely disagree with).

Surely this is a case of "deliberately declaring" your hand?  Don"t these two rules contradict each other?

[TightEnd]

One is verbal, rule 57, one isn"t..the other rule

We are in response to feedback looking at the other rule for future events

[TightEnd]

One is verbal, rule 57, one isn"t..the other rule

We are in response to feedback looking at the other rule for future events

[kinboshi]

One is verbal, rule 57, one isn"t..the other rule

We are in response to feedback looking at the other rule for future events

One is verbal, rule 57, one isn"t..the other rule

We are in response to feedback looking at the other rule for future events

Is it that one is verbal and the other rule isn"t?

Are you considering changing the other rule for future events?

[TightEnd]

Yes

Yes

and once more Yes


No need to multiple post Mr fishi, sir

[kinboshi]

Is that a yes then?

[Philippos13]

Kishnobi why do u disagree with that rule if there is noone else to act?
the only reason i can think of is if someone on the table (not in the hand) makes a comment or something...

[Swinebag]

Kishnobi why do u disagree with that rule if there is noone else to act?
the only reason i can think of is if someone on the table (not in the hand) makes a comment or something...

Is this chat abuse?

[kinboshi]

Kishnobi why do u disagree with that rule if there is noone else to act?
the only reason i can think of is if someone on the table (not in the hand) makes a comment or something...

Is this chat abuse?

LOL - I"ve been called worse!

[kinboshi]

Kishnobi why do u disagree with that rule if there is noone else to act?
the only reason i can think of is if someone on the table (not in the hand) makes a comment or something...

There are a number of reasons I think it"s wrong.

One, is the reason you stated.  You turn your cards over and someone comments that you"ve lost one of the cards you"re drawing to as they held a particular card, or that if they"d called they"d hit the  whatever. 

It"s also the same as declaring your hand.  You"re trying to get a read off the player (and other players who are no longer in the hand).  A player might even do it to get the other player to reveal his hand before the showdown - and therefore making his hand dead as you"re still to act.  It"s angle-shooting.

I saw a televised event, not sure which one, and Gus Hansen showed his cards to a player sitting next to him in exactly this situation.  the TD stepped in and said his cards were dead.  I thought this was fair.

[texfitz]

forgive me for interupting this thread but what"s it all about ?

you CAN declare your holdings
you CAN"T declare your holdings
you CAN lie about your holdings
you CAN"T lie about your holdings
you CAN/CANNOT tell the truth if asked

what is the initial purpose of this game ?  To get all the chips in play

the clock is ticking -  LET YOUR CHIPS DO THE TALKING