Author Topic: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...  (Read 24673 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

TheSnapper

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1061
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2011, 14:37:58 PM »

There is a lot of naivety displayed itt, surely its implicit in the the competition title "Team event" that soft play will not only occur but be expected as an integral strategy within the somewhat unique Team game dynamic.

A few poor souls were slow to understand this dynamic hence the several threads flaming those idividuals for play deemed harmful to the Team objective.

So in the abscence of a full and specific set of rules for the event ( likely expensive ) people can either not play the event or embrace and adjust to the new and interesting dynamic it offers.
"Being wrong is erroneously associated with failure, when, in fact, to be proven wrong should be celebrated, for it elevates someone to a new level of understanding."

Laxie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2623
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2011, 14:50:27 PM »


So basically u have a rule which isn"t policed so we can collide/soft play and if we don"t like that we don"t participate?


It"s the reason I don"t play it. I got chastised by my captain for 3-betting a team mate... left me scarred for life, I"ve been the same player since. Only last night I had a dream nightmare where I was being disciplined by said captain.

Nurse, NURSE... is it time for my medication?


LMAOOO!!!  Sure is true ya goose!   I"d say it"s time to up yer dose of meds.  :D

I"m more inclined to chastise ya for not playing at all, but no point fighting anyone to sign up so yer safe. 


George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2011, 15:36:13 PM »
It"s either a rule it it isn"t. I"m not naive not am I accusing anyone of anything but the rules state no collusion it soft play. But itt we are saying actually there is not much we can do about it. Well remove it ad a rule then so there"s no grey area.

I was intending on playing this year but I spose this rule will mean that this who soft play will win the league and those who don"t don"t really have a chance and getting the added value
Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose

AMRN

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2011, 15:59:29 PM »

So in the abscence of a full and specific set of rules for the event ( likely expensive ) people can either not play the event or embrace and adjust to the new and interesting dynamic it offers.


Spot on Brendan!

Really don"t understand why people are getting so worked up. Collusion is cheating, and is a dirty word - and I don"t believe (for the most part) that anyone cheats in the APAT league games. The TEAM ethic breeds a new way to play - elements of Soft Play are part and parcel of the TEAM game.... that said though, Chip Dumping would be a step too far (imo).


George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2011, 16:10:41 PM »
So u don"t regard folding aces to an open shove as collusion?
Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose

AMRN

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2011, 16:21:42 PM »

So u don"t regard folding aces to an open shove as collusion?


collusion [k??lu???n]
n
1. secret agreement for a fraudulent purpose; connivance; conspiracy
2. (Law) a secret agreement between opponents at law in order to obtain a judicial decision for some wrongful or improper purpose

No - I don"t think folding AA there is collusion.... Tony and I had made no prior secret agreement, and there was no conspiracy of connivance.

I do however think it was soft play. The fact is though, I looked at my cards as an irrelevant act - I was clearly folding whatever they were and could have folded blind.  Also, if I hadn"t said anything after the event, who would have known? If I had just folded blind, nobody would have said a word.  Same goes for the online events - who knows what others are folding?  If we break 888"s rules around soft play, the software filters will catch us out.    

Btw, when I folded AA, Tony and I were at a 7 handed table, 4 of which were from one team, and they were taking it in turns to raise and 3-bet each other, meaning the rest of us were effectively squeezed out of every hand. This is good team play - is it therefore also cheating? (clearly they had agreed their plan in advance, so is actually collusion).

Fact is, if we want to stop all the debate about collusion and soft play, we would have to abandon the team event.

collusion is something else altogether.



George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2011, 16:25:46 PM »
If u 3 bet fold aces with no prior agreement is that collusion?

Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose

AMRN

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2011, 16:26:51 PM »

If u 3 bet fold aces with no prior agreement is that collusion?




collusion [k??lu???n]
n
1. secret agreement for a fraudulent purpose; connivance; conspiracy
2. (Law) a secret agreement between opponents at law in order to obtain a judicial decision for some wrongful or improper purpose

George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2011, 16:30:23 PM »
Noted for future games
Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose

deanp27

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1459
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2011, 19:48:17 PM »

If u 3 bet fold aces with no prior agreement is that collusion?




no its stupidity lol
Looking forward to making my first day 2

bigalhx3

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 863
  • apat 7 card stud world champion & scott champ
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2011, 17:00:22 PM »

Just caught up with this.
I find it easier, as most of our team seem to use it regularly, to print the list on facebook.
That is all it is....a LIST of our players and it is open for all to see.
If we have 5 players at the same table (as happened in hand 1 this week) I want them to know who our players are.
If they choose to ignore that fact, then for me, they are not playing as a team and if that is the case, how does this"Team" event differ from any other freezeout?

When we played the TGF live Final at Star City in February, Tony Trippier and Steve Redfern were at the same table near the end and we needed both to make the top 25 for our team to have a slim chance of winning.
  Tony shoved his short-stack into Steve"s BB and Steve folded A-A so as not to knock a team-mate out. Is that collusion or playing for your team ?
  I know what my answer is.



http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?topic=8259.0
in the TGF teams was told that soft play was ok but in apat and i have pointed out the rule (15) it is not .


AMRN

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2011, 17:34:59 PM »
A great article about so called poker principles from Paul Jackson.....And an excerpt that"s very appropriate to this thread....

"The reason some people are wary of team poker events, is that poker is obviously usually an individual pursuit. Any type of collusion or soft play is considered (quite rightly) as cheating. Some people carry over these principles when it comes to team poker. What they fail to understand is that it is a different concept, all be it played within familiar surroundings. The aim of the game is to win the team prize. The prize rewards the best team performance and so your strategy and approach to the game should be quite different to ones in which prizes are awarded to individuals."

http://www.pokerencore.com/blogs/2011/04/team-poker-principles/

George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2011, 18:28:55 PM »

A great article about so called poker principles from Paul Jackson.....And an excerpt that"s very appropriate to this thread....

"The reason some people are wary of team poker events, is that poker is obviously usually an individual pursuit. Any type of collusion or soft play is considered (quite rightly) as cheating. Some people carry over these principles when it comes to team poker. What they fail to understand is that it is a different concept, all be it played within familiar surroundings. The aim of the game is to win the team prize. The prize rewards the best team performance and so your strategy and approach to the game should be quite different to ones in which prizes are awarded to individuals."

http://www.pokerencore.com/blogs/2011/04/team-poker-principles/


yes but it"s against the rules. This is starting to grate on me. If it wasn"t in the rules that soft play wasn"t allowed I wouldn"t care but it states it ISNT allowed in this TEAM game.
Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose

Chipaccrual

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11339
    • APAT
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2011, 18:40:29 PM »
George,

Completely take your point on the rule for this particular set of events, and I agree that it would appear slightly contradictory to how we anticipate the games to be played.

Going to get it reviewed and amended where necessary before the May matchdays.

Thanks for raising the point.


Leigh

George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Prior to each Online League game, please do this...
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2011, 18:52:43 PM »

George,

Completely take your point on the rule for this particular set of events, and I agree that it would appear slightly contradictory to how we anticipate the games to be played.

Going to get it reviewed and amended where necessary before the May matchdays.

Thanks for raising the point.


Leigh


Thank you Leigh!
Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose