REALLY angry, but now I've calmed down.....is this collusion ?

[SirPercival]

+1 to Marty. The bloke talks sense on this occasion

FYP  

[RioRodent]

I think chip"s action was harmless enough compared to someone sitting at the table and ranting after...

... IN CAPITALS!!!!  

[coprey]

tbh - I really think a few people here are making way too much of this.  Forums seem to make people more likely to blow things out of proportion.

It was a mistake, but not one done with any malice.  It was apologised for and resolved.  Problem solved.

Its virtually impossible for APAT to enforce non-collusion rules in this format.  I think they look for their members to help them out a bit, and just use common sense.  That is really what this comes down to.  We do not need a new rule-book, just for their members to use common sense and nt make a mountain out of a molehill!!

I think chip"s action was harmless enough compared to someone sitting at the table and ranting after...

+1

[BOINGBLITZ]

WHO WAS THIS  ??

[AMRN]

I think chip"s action was harmless enough compared to someone sitting at the table and ranting after...

Whilst I suspect Brian really does regret some of the specifics of his chat box responses last night, I think it"s fair to say he was probably feeling a little sensitive having been accused of cheating last week for using facebook to post up the list of West Mids players registered for last week"s game, and suggesting that team mates should avoid knocking each other out.

What I find surprising is the fact that he was lambasted for that action, yet people are now saying open collusion last night was just a trivial storm in a tea cup.  Leigh has taken action on last night"s situation - let"s just move on.

Hope this doesn"t spoil what is an excellent APAT team event with some awesome added value for the winners.

[Honeybadg]

Is part of the answer to post a list on match nights for all the runners sorted into their teams?

You can then assess your table with fuller information.

I have not played this season - but I would always check which teams people were playing for and allow for any potential team dynamics.

For me that made the competition richer and more challenging.

My view was always that it was a team event and to expect it to be played as a team event.

If the view is that it is an individual event with points then scored for a team then a lot of the play seen every night since I started playing would seem somewhat irregular.

In the first match that I ever played the last 4 runners were 3 from Belfast and me for Edinburgh - from memory they played against me as I would have expected, the banter was spot on and they won - fair play.

For me - Full Information in terms of the teams that people are playing for and then normal table manners works fine.

L

[siberiankhatru]

Sorry but i dont want this issue lost amongst all the other posts...

Something happened on the other table between Diablo and bitofatart - both Solent players I believe as I have just found out. There was one hand where clear collusion took place of a player announcing his hand to the other. I thought this was friendly mind games where we may tell an opponent our hand to put them off or make them believe they"ve made a bad decision. However, I"ve just found out they"re on the same team making it more questionable.

I know Mars of Nottingham also commented whether this was legal at the time in the chatbox, and I also asked the question in the chatbox as to whether they were same or opposing teams - but got no response at the time so gave them benefit of the doubt until now.

It affects the whole dynamics of the game and is not right. I know several Notts players including me, who"ve been there since division 3 are considering whether its worth playing.

Myself and Mars who are both Notts players were constantly raising and shoving on each other without regard for each other"s survival.

I think this needs to be dealt with swiftly because it undermines the whole point of the league and more importantly its credibility and competitiveness.

I was at the table at the time of this incident. If I remember correctly it was raised in early position then folded around to the big blind. The BB tanked for a bit then the raiser then put in the chatbox "10s if you want to call".

I wasn"t really bothered at the time but if others are being punished then this should be aswell.

[gerry5421]

[TheSnapper]

at one point near the bubble ( long after the incident in question ) there were i think 7 at our table and 4 of us on the same team. i was sat with a decent stack between 2 team-mates who are short stacked. the other bloke on our team is chip leader. in effect i"m paralysed and bleeding chips to try and nurse through 2 blokes who altho on the same team i"ve never met in my life and wouldn"t know from adam. i sat for 4 hours to make 6 bucks profit, and threw away any chance of winning to help blokes i dont know get points some "pro" at the table keeps telling me we are going to lose anyway. for the privelege i get over an hours worth of abuse from phil ivey and his sad sidekick, and then have to sit up till gone 1 a.m. dealing with a stewards inquiry.

It seems the "Team" format is not for you Chip! ^^^

What a bloody storm, ironic really given the healthy discussion Here

fwiw, if you are raising a team mates blind, give him / her credit for understanding the "Team Dynamic" rather than crudely and publically announcing your hand. Equally should your team mate reraise you in this spot, understand that they either have a monster hand or are oblivious to the "Team Dynamic".

[Shortstack]

For my money I"m not particularly satisfied with the attitude of the Sunderland team on this one

Theres nowt wrong with my attitude marra
I PM"ed Leigh as soon as the chat went "overboard" as i knew it was out of order. I even suggested docking Chips points in the PM to keep the peace ffs. We would have had points deducted anyway but the fact remains that i put this in my first PM to Leigh after the incident happened has got to count for something. I said if hes shown his hand after announcing it we cant argue about been punished as i never seen the hand. We are as straight as they come including Chip.

The last thing i want is people thinking we are colluding or in general have anything bad to say about us as a group of individuals.
His actions in the game have been taking out of context as he seen it as table banter but yes it was wrong and its been dealt with in the correct manner.
I put a rather large post on the first page of this thread appologising for his actions and together with disclosure of what i put in my initial PM to Leigh about the incident, for you to say "I"m not particularly satisfied with the attitude of the Sunderland team on this one" is a joke comment.

As for anyone still in any doubts about us colluding or of having bad ethics - we dont, we havent and we never ever will.

[Chipaccrual]

For my money I"m not particularly satisfied with the attitude of the Sunderland team on this one

Theres nowt wrong with my attitude marra
I PM"ed Leigh as soon as the chat went "overboard" as i knew it was out of order. I even suggested docking Chips points in the PM to keep the peace ffs. We would have had points deducted anyway but the fact remains that i put this in my first PM to Leigh after the incident happened has got to count for something. We are as straight as they come including Chip.

The last thing i want is people thinking we are colluding or in general have anything bad to say about us as a group of individuals.
His actions in the game have been taking out of context as he seen it as table banter but yes it was wrong and its been dealt with in the correct manner.
I put a rather large post on the first page of this thread appologising for his actions and together with disclosure of what i put in my initial PM to Leigh about the incident, for you to say "I"m not particularly satisfied with the attitude of the Sunderland team on this one" is a joke comment.

As for anyone still in any doubts about us colluding - we dont, we havent and we never ever will.

Completely agree with Al on everything he has posted.

We all make mistakes, but it"s been dealt with.  If anyone has any other issues, then let me know in a pm.

As has been mentioned on another thread discussing "soft play", we will be clarifying the rules prior to the May matchdays and will announce this shortly.

Let"s not make more of this than is necessary.  There are much more important things you could all be doing, like



I would point out that chip dumping does take place in the Bunch Of Fives events.  If you are lucky enough to start on my table, then you may consider some of my play, as I lose my chips, somewhat erratic.  I would like to point out that this is just normal, and no cause for alarm.  

[MintTrav]

I think the Sunderland captain and the player involved have made several very good points. I don"t think they should have been deducted any points for this storm-in-a-teacup, but Leigh has done a good job of calming things down.

[chip fireball]

just to put this into some context for those not at the table, i was sat at a table with team mates, dazza and patrick either side of me.

the blinds were 400/800, think patrick had about 7k, dazza had 9, and i had about 18. two rotations running it had folded round to dazza on the button who went all in. first time we both folded, second time patrick who was in big blind seemed hacked off as he typed " ffs dazza" suggesting he either had a playable hand but wanted to avoid a showdown, or he was sick of having a team mate with more chips taking his blinds. patrick folded, dazza showed aq suited and claimed via chat that he had kk the time before.

the very next rotation it folded to us again and i typed my turn for aq suited fellas. it was by way of an apology to patrick because i was going to shove. as it turns out patrick didnt even see what i typed and was still oblivious 15 minutes later as to what had happened.

i think some of the people on here need to realise there are people playing this, like me, who have never played poker in a casino in their lives, and who genuinely make mistakes.the fact other people were making exactly the same mistake at other tables supports this.

if mfcrocker ( who reminds me of the sort of person that stops anyone sensible taking up golf cometitively ) only wants participants hugely experienced and fully up to speed with the nuances of the apat rulebook then perhaps entry should be restricted to professionals like himself. i play because i"m normally trading u.s. sports on a sunday night, so i"m online anyway, and the crack is usually good. i dont claim to be any good at it or to have played at a million and one major live tournaments.

as for snappers comments... human beings are pre-programmed to be inherently selfish. it is part of our psychological make-up. some more than others, but generally speaking we like to get our own way in relationships with other human beings. sometimes this is done crudely,by the use of threats or violence perhaps, sometimes subtley by use of suggestion or mind -games. fwiw i know some hugely intelligent human beings who are not familiar with the apat rulebook. my mother, who is a doctor, doesn"t even know how to play poker at all. should we have her shot ?

[daveyb147]

When the league first started i asked my captain if we had any team tactics and was told this would be regarded as collusion.Having never played poker in a team format before i was unsure of the protocol and was just trying to clarify if we played as a team or an individual.
 Once this was made crystal clear to me i played every game without regard for my team mates,which i must admit does feel strange when playing for a "team".Maybe others,,like me not used to team events,need this clarified.

[BOINGBLITZ]

Having read what Chip has put on here today, it is pretty obvious that this was a genuine error on his part and that he didn"t mean to gain from it. I have apologised for going a little overboard with my comments in the chatbox last night, both on here and in a PM to him.
 I think people should now accept this error for what it was as there is a difference between trying to cheat and making a genuine mistake. We all make mistakes (Ask my Wife !!)