British young guns/ Hellmuth love him or hate him?

[MintTrav]

Probably because his hold em game is pretty flawed

Think Hellmuth has only won braceletes in Hold em, but the game has changed so much these last few years (bigger fields/ more agressive preflop etc), and thats why people are saying he is getting left behind because he hasnt really adapted his game.

Yeah, that"s what everyone says but is it really the case with regard to live tournament poker? Ignoring the earlier years, these are his WSOP results for the last 5 years (Hold Em only), ignoring some lower cashes:

2010: 15/2341
2009: 17/446, 24/928, 29/1646
2008: 45/6844 (Main Event), 71/2304
2007: 1/2628, 6/827, 25/296, 31/728
2006: 1/754, 2/622, 3/484, 13/415

I wish my Hold Em game was as flawed and left-behind as that.

Regarding him being a Hold Em specialist, in the same period he has made FTs in PLO, PLO Hi-Lo, Limit Omaha Hi-Lo, HORSE and now 2-7 Lowball, as well as cashing in Stud Hi-Lo and Six-Max.

In all WSOP events, he has had 11 FTs and 31 cashes since 2006.

Is everyone just accepting the conventional wisdom without looking at the evidence?


Edit: PH currently 28/384 from 1378 in Event 26 - NLHE 6 Max. Mind you, Audley Harrison is 21st.

[MintTrav]

Well, that and he"s a monumental bell-end.

That much isn"t in doubt though, like Stuart, I am convinced that a large proportion of his act is exactly that, calculated to intimidate opponents out of playing non-standard hands in case they are abused for it, so that he can then put them on hands more easily.

[PantsMan]

Well, that and he"s a monumental bell-end.

That much isn"t in doubt though, like Stuart, I am convinced that a large proportion of his act is exactly that, calculated to intimidate opponents out of playing non-standard hands in case they are abused for it, so that he can then put them on hands more easily.

Does that really work though. I"d be going out of my way to make him blow up rather than worrying about him "abusing" me.

Although his results at the World Series are impressive, elsewhere he"s done very little.

The World Series attracts a lot of weaker players who he gets results against, once he comes up against decent calibre players he fails time and time again. If he didn"t proclaim himself to be so amazing that wouldn"t be an issue but he does so sets himself up for ridicule, particularly from the top players who know he"s simply not up there with the best

[AMRN]

You only had to watch the recent Premier League to see that his image has put a massive target on his forehead, and people just love to take shots at him for the chance to put him on tilt. Compare his image to that of Phil Ivey - I suspect people are less inclined to try and embarrass Ivey.  So - if it"s really the case that Hellmuth puts on his show to try and get people to tighten their range against him, it clearly doesn"t work. I suspect ranges are much tighter against Ivey - the stare is far more difficult to play against than the tilted abuse and blow up.

The results don"t lie - re MintTrav"s summary further up the thread... I hadn"t realised Hellmuth had achieved such good results in recent years, and had gone with the general notion that he"s a has-been.... clearly not the case!

Definitely a bell-end though.

[Marty719]

<3 PH.  

[TheSnapper]

<3 PH. 

Care to decode this Marty.

His "bell end" behaviour does a lot to promote the game though.

[Marty719]

<3 PH. 

Care to decode this Marty.

His "bell end" behaviour does a lot to promote the game though.

Turn your head 90 degrees to the right for the first part, then back to regular for the 2nd

Def good for the game.  Def has some outdated tendancies, but certainly still a good player that people love to hate.  Think its hilarious how popular it has become to hate Hellmuth.  Im sure he weeps in his silk woven, gold plated bed at night...

[deanp27]

Some good young UK players left in last 190 of the 2500 6 max.

[George2Loose]

Probably because his hold em game is pretty flawed

Think Hellmuth has only won braceletes in Hold em, but the game has changed so much these last few years (bigger fields/ more agressive preflop etc), and thats why people are saying he is getting left behind because he hasnt really adapted his game.

Yeah, that"s what everyone says but is it really the case with regard to live tournament poker? Ignoring the earlier years, these are his WSOP results for the last 5 years (Hold Em only), ignoring some lower cashes:

2010: 15/2341
2009: 17/446, 24/928, 29/1646
2008: 45/6844 (Main Event), 71/2304
2007: 1/2628, 6/827, 25/296, 31/728
2006: 1/754, 2/622, 3/484, 13/415

I wish my Hold Em game was as flawed and left-behind as that.

Regarding him being a Hold Em specialist, in the same period he has made FTs in PLO, PLO Hi-Lo, Limit Omaha Hi-Lo, HORSE and now 2-7 Lowball, as well as cashing in Stud Hi-Lo and Six-Max.

In all WSOP events, he has had 11 FTs and 31 cashes since 2006.

Is everyone just accepting the conventional wisdom without looking at the evidence?


Edit: PH currently 28/384 from 1378 in Event 26 - NLHE 6 Max. Mind you, Audley Harrison is 21st.

No need to wish buddy. It is

[fandango]

Def good for the game IMO , along with Mike the mouth, and Laak etc makes good viewing on the Tv..

[SirPercival]

Phil Hellmuth currently down to last 3 players in event #33 - 7card stud H/L

edit - and just been sucked out on 7th street 2 hands in a row. Win either one of them and he was HU.

[SirPercival]

John Racener finishes 3rd

Helmuth HU (again) in a non-Hold'em event.

[Marty719]

John Racener finishes 3rd

Helmuth HU (again) in a non-Hold'em event.

PH ftw!!

[Marty719]

[SirPercival]

Although he was runner-up again he is now top of the POTY leaderboard.