QQ in a 5-bet pot in a cash game

[AMRN]

Pacific Poker - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

ValueRiddler (BTN): $141.68
GodBlessMyWR (SB): $50.09
JicaTa321 (BB): $50.00
AtilaxCuvier (UTG): $96.75
AMRN888 (MP): $72.90
amelia333 (CO): $49.75

GodBlessMyWR posts SB $0.25, JicaTa321 posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: ($0.75) AMRN888 has   qh qs

AtilaxCuvier raises to $2.00
AMRN888 calls $2.00
fold
ValueRiddler raises to $9.56
fold
fold
fold
AMRN888 raises to $28.00
ValueRiddler raises to $141.68

------------------

Table has been generally aggro with lots of 3-betting, squeezing, etc. ValueRiddler has rarely got out of line though, and his stack has been built with a couple of big showdowns where he has had the goods.

My image at the table is TAG. I"ve played 150 hands with stats of 12/7/4, and a 3-bet stat of 3%.

I"ve flat called behind the UTG raiser (35/22/1) in the almost certain knowledge that someone will squeeze.

ValueRiddler (18/18/6) makes the squeeze and UTG raiser folds.

I 4-bet expecting that I have the best hand here most of the time.

Should I be insta-calling his 5-bet shove, given all of the above, or can I fold given that I still have 90 BB behind.

[Marty719]

Im not going to be folding here when our hand is so under-repped with our flat pre, but Im not entirely happy about it.  Once we 4b this size I especially never fold.  fwiw - I 4b a lot smaller w/ my entire range.

[Mikeyboy9361]

Are you ever putting 40% of your stack in and folding, in a cash game? I don"t think so, having said that from what you say of the villain it sounds like you could well be behind, or at best flipping.

[Marty719]

We still have 40% vs QQ+, AK and we are getting a good price.  

[samuel_9]

youve only got $72 and i thought you where loaded ........shove not folding

[Marty719]

Just as a side Steve - what is your reasoning for the 4b size?  

[AMRN]

Just as a side Steve - what is your reasoning for the 4b size?  

On reflection, I would prefer a 4b to $21. My excuse is that I was playing six tables, and using the auto buttons too much... I probably just clicked Pot, then wound it back a little.

[noble1]

hmmm ur pot committed, both call or fold are ok imho...
call - because your big 4bet sizing, also villain as u say has shown down 2 big hands and may of made a move as he wont of expected u to flat QQ..
fold - in terms of long term profit calling this type of players 5bet shove at these stakes with QQ wont exactly be your bread and butter profits, break even at best if your lucky ..

4bet smaller so u can build some bluffing frequency into different player types, then adjust according how u want to exploit them.. 2.1 to 2.5x there 3bet would be ok, in your situation 4betting anything around $20 to $23 would be fine..
4betting smaller for value will at least allow in theory the chance of your chosen victim to call or re-raise with worse hands than yours..

dont like your stats steve tbh, 12/7/4 is wee bit nitty for 6max, do u normally play this tight in 6max cash ??
if villain is half decent and has noticed how rarely u raise, then his 5bet shove maybe just AA, if u called and lost then heyho, afterwards now u know and u can adjust accordingly..

is the 3rd figure in the stats the 3bet % or the AF ?

[AMRN]

dont like your stats steve tbh, 12/7/4 is wee bit nitty for 6max, do u normally play this tight in 6max cash ??

er... categorically no. This was just the way that particular table had played out for me.  My overall 50NL 6max for last 5000 hands is 18/12/2.  Even that"s probably a little tight though?

[Marty719]

dont like your stats steve tbh, 12/7/4 is wee bit nitty for 6max, do u normally play this tight in 6max cash ??

er... categorically no. This was just the way that particular table had played out for me.  My overall 50NL 6max for last 5000 hands is 18/12/2.  Even that"s probably a little tight though?

Flat less and 3b more imo.  

[TheSnapper]

hmmm ur pot committed, both call or fold are ok imho...

I don"t agree that we"re pot committed

This deep with our image versus a solid reg I dont think we"re ever priced in and on the rare occasion that we are, its only barely correct to call.

We still have 40% vs QQ+, AK and we are getting a good price.

We never have 40%, because we hold QQ there are only two further combo"s of QQ possible for villain. Allowing a discount that he may 50% time misinterpret your weak flat and overplay AK, his range could be, best case for us and I really think its generous in this dynamic ....

KK+,QcQd,AhKh,AsKs,AcKd,AcKh,AcKs,AdKh,AdKs,AhKs

QQ has ~33%

fold - in terms of long term profit calling this type of players 5bet shove at these stakes with QQ wont exactly be your bread and butter profits, break even at best if your lucky ..

Totally agree with this, especially so 140 BB"s deep and! folding has the added benefit of avoiding super high variance spots that can often be detrimental to our ability to maintain a winning level of play.

[Marty719]

I have no problem w/ 3b/folding in this spot, but what do u think our range looks like when we flat/4b?  I think our pf actions can affect villains 5b range.

[Marty719]

We never have 40%, because we hold QQ there are only two further combo"s of QQ possible for villain. Allowing a discount that he may 50% time misinterpret your weak flat and overplay AK, his range could be, best case for us and I really think its generous in this dynamic ....

KK+,QcQd,AhKh,AsKs,AcKd,AcKh,AcKs,AdKh,AdKs,AhKs

QQ has ~33%

We are still getting the right price vs this range;

QhQs

34.19%

KK-AA,QcQd,AhKh,AsKs,AcKd,AcKh,AcKs,AdKh,AdKs,AhKs

65.81%

[TheSnapper]

We never have 40%, because we hold QQ there are only two further combo"s of QQ possible for villain. Allowing a discount that he may 50% time misinterpret your weak flat and overplay AK, his range could be, best case for us and I really think its generous in this dynamic ....

KK+,QcQd,AhKh,AsKs,AcKd,AcKh,AcKs,AdKh,AdKs,AhKs

QQ has ~33%

We are still getting the right price vs this range;

QhQs

34.19%

KK-AA,QcQd,AhKh,AsKs,AcKd,AcKh,AcKs,AdKh,AdKs,AhKs

65.81%

[Marty719]

I have to disagree that it is generous.  People at these levels overplay AK in general, and he is more likely to squeeze IP w/ it after a pfr and a flat.  He can actually squeeze a little wider in this spot as AMRN"s flat ensure that utg needs a genuine hand to continue.  I actually narrowed the original range. 

Id say no-one has a large enough sample of these spots to adequately make an assessment from their database, but I think folding Q"s here would be a mistake given our pf actions.