Ukipt #2

[George2Loose]

[most pairs 10x etc] so he 3bets wide then? why was that not mentioned in the post George/Q8 ?  plus the 52s and how active u"ve been?
in that that case your turn bet could look bluffy which would set up a thin call by oppo on the river.. likewise you"ll have to think about the sizing imo, if oppo isn"t that faint hearted he could check raise bluff the river and set u a tough decision...

No idea if he 3 betting wide but with all the fish at the table and knowing he"s a decent player and he"s in position it wouldn"t surprise me

[I Q8Holds I]

What 52 suited? :Z ... And i just think hes a thinking player and ive flatted a 3bet and led out small on turn i must be beating a10/99 etc

[George2Loose]

What 52 suited? :Z ... And i just think hes a thinking player and ive flatted a 3bet and led out small on turn i must be beating a10/99 etc

Yeh but that doesn"t mean he doesn"t call river. I just don"t think he"s be c/calling turn and river with hands that beat you therefore we can go for value

[noble1]

What 52 suited? :Z ... And i just think hes a thinking player and ive flatted a 3bet and led out small on turn i must be beating a10/99 etc

Yeh but that doesn"t mean he doesn"t call river. I just don"t think he"s be c/calling turn and river with hands that beat you therefore we can go for value

if u think his tendencies are that transparent in that he never traps big/strong hands or will turn say JJ KK AA into bluff catchers and is super honest oop in pre 3bet pots on 4th and 5th street and would never turn say Kx /Q,J or worse into a check raise bluff then heyho u can bet the river  more so if u think he would lead out and bet the river with only strong hands

all we really need to do is anticipate the situations that will likely occur and adjust accordingly..

[I Q8Holds I]

Pot was already over 4k iknew who he was and he was very compitent good, but wasn"t sure how he played so was happy to check behind really its nearly a 100bb pot lol

[George2Loose]

What 52 suited? :Z ... And i just think hes a thinking player and ive flatted a 3bet and led out small on turn i must be beating a10/99 etc

Yeh but that doesn"t mean he doesn"t call river. I just don"t think he"s be c/calling turn and river with hands that beat you therefore we can go for value

if u think his tendencies are that transparent in that he never traps big/strong hands or will turn say JJ KK AA into bluff catchers and is super honest oop in pre 3bet pots on 4th and 5th street and would never turn say Kx /Q,J or worse into a check raise bluff then heyho u can bet the river  more so if u think he would lead out and bet the river with only strong hands

all we really need to do is anticipate the situations that will likely occur and adjust accordingly..

That"s what I"m saying. i was there. I value bet.

[I Q8Holds I]

Yeh could of tbh a bit of noobness came into me and i didnt want to be on 7k after 30mins although i dont think its wrong for me to check but i probarly should of bet


p.s you playing edinborough?

[TheSnapper]

What 52 suited? :Z ... And i just think hes a thinking player and ive flatted a 3bet and led out small on turn i must be beating a10/99 etc

Yeh but that doesn"t mean he doesn"t call river. I just don"t think he"s be c/calling turn and river with hands that beat you therefore we can go for value

What hands can he check call with that we beat ?

[George2Loose]

Yeh could of tbh a bit of noobness came into me and i didnt want to be on 7k after 30mins although i dont think its wrong for me to check but i probarly should of bet


p.s you playing edinborough?

Yep- see you there?

[I Q8Holds I]

50-50 atm willbe costly flights/hotel etc

[George2Loose]

What 52 suited? :Z ... And i just think hes a thinking player and ive flatted a 3bet and led out small on turn i must be beating a10/99 etc

Yeh but that doesn"t mean he doesn"t call river. I just don"t think he"s be c/calling turn and river with hands that beat you therefore we can go for value

What hands can he check call with that we beat ?

Let me ask you another question rather than answering this.

Say you sneak a peek at his cards on the turn and see he has pocket nines would you bet river?

OFC you would. In this instance I am 90% sure I am winning therefore I can bet. What he calls river with is his concern. Rudders"s thoughts about checking back are fine but one of the things which seperates the greatest players from the good ones is there ability to go for thin value when they know they"re winning. Sometimes you can valuetown yourself but in this spot I really think we"re winning enough of the time to put out another bet

[I Q8Holds I]

Im normally very good at value betting i just thought i might aswell turn my cards over it was obvious what i had

[noble1]

What 52 suited? :Z ... And i just think hes a thinking player and ive flatted a 3bet and led out small on turn i must be beating a10/99 etc

Yeh but that doesn"t mean he doesn"t call river. I just don"t think he"s be c/calling turn and river with hands that beat you therefore we can go for value

What hands can he check call with that we beat ?

etc   etc  99  JJ

with no idea of oppo"s tendencies then the solid thing to do is to check the river.. its a skinny thin vb to make on the river, but this deep i can see the positives so long as you have the ability to take advantage of your image...
Snapper dont be handcuffed by traditional thinking, in my experience solid players turn out to play poorly when u test them and trick them and tilt them and exploit them... depends on your own style of play in the end....
you should make "super thin" value bets now and then. theres always spots that come up in aggressive poker games where a certain line that your opponent has took which can basically scream he may likely have mid level nonsense to absolute dog-pooh, so you can reverse read hands and realise that even say the 34th nuts is actually the 1st nuts given certain action barring some insane level your opponent is pulling which he"s not. i can see the argument that this is one of those spots, so bet! [he may even fold better pairs]

disclaimer - this is the cash game LAG in me that proposes my thoughts above..

[TheSnapper]

What 52 suited? :Z ... And i just think hes a thinking player and ive flatted a 3bet and led out small on turn i must be beating a10/99 etc

Yeh but that doesn"t mean he doesn"t call river. I just don"t think he"s be c/calling turn and river with hands that beat you therefore we can go for value

What hands can he check call with that we beat ?

Let me ask you another question rather than answering this.

Say you sneak a peek at his cards on the turn and see he has pocket nines would you bet river?

Of Course we value bet, safe in the knowledge that his entire range is 99 and we"re a lock, but, thats not the spot we face as detailed itt.

OFC you would. In this instance I am 90% sure I am winning therefore I can bet. What he calls river with is his concern. Rudders"s thoughts about checking back are fine but one of the things which seperates the greatest players from the good ones is there ability to go for thin value when they know they"re winning. Sometimes you can valuetown yourself but in this spot I really think we"re winning enough of the time to put out another bet

Agree totally about thin value and really good players, the bottom line is they can extract thin value because they hand read so well.

This spot is super thin though and I would estimate that his range on the river is very evenly divided between hands that fold / call and win / call and lose.

If he held AhX it would be a great spot for him to check raise bluff the river, and I think Chris is sick enough to make that move tbh.

Given that you are vb"ing here, what size bet George?

[noble1]

If he held AhX it would be a great spot for him to check raise bluff the river, and I think Chris is sick enough to make that move tbh.

check raise bluff river - to make this work one of the most important conditions imho are the turn going check check or poor bet sizing on the turn which screams weak... [edit - oh and some1 who bluffs/vb"s rivers thin helps also]

disclaimer - no reimbursements allowed