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George2Loose · « **on:** September 13, 2011, 17:56:48 PM »

I know this has been discussed before.

But is it time to up/vary APAT buy ins for next season.

Sky have just announced their new tour which varies it"s buy ins and looks very exciting and is aimed at a similar market

Is APAT being left behind?

Paulie_D · « **Reply #1 on:** September 13, 2011, 18:08:14 PM »

Quote from: George2Loose on September 13, 2011, 17:56:48 PM

I know this has been discussed before.

But is it time to up/vary APAT buy ins for next season.

Sky have just announced their new tour which varies it"s buy ins and looks very exciting and is aimed at a similar market

Is APAT being left behind?

APAT have a winning formula, I can"t see any reason to change it. I see them as leading the way not getting left behind.

As George says, there are other options and if people want higher buy-ins they know where to find them.

PHIL_TC · « **Reply #2 on:** September 13, 2011, 18:22:52 PM »

I think the APAT WCOAP Main Event selling out as it did at £100+ (not just this but previous years) shows that there"s demand and that APAT players can and are prepared to pay a little more. I"m not saying increase buyin"s for all events but I like Georges idea of some varied buy ins next season.

Jon MW · « **Reply #3 on:** September 13, 2011, 18:41:54 PM »

Quote from: PHIL_TC on September 13, 2011, 18:22:52 PM

I think the APAT WCOAP Main Event selling out as it did at £100+ (not just this but previous years) shows that there"s demand and that APAT players can and are prepared to pay a little more. I"m not saying increase buyin"s for all events but I like Georges idea of some varied buy ins next season.

You got more chips in the WCOAP didn"t you?

I would have thought the fact that it"s taking longer for tournaments to sell out is probably a good sign that they shouldn"t be tinkered with excessively. Despite the number of regulars and veterans in APAT there are still plenty of "new" people coming through; if there was more emphasis on more expensive tournaments I think this would put a lot of new players off.

A standard national buy in, and a premium event seems a good plan, I don"t see any need to change it.

PHIL_TC · « **Reply #4 on:** September 13, 2011, 19:05:44 PM »

Quote from: Jon MW on September 13, 2011, 18:41:54 PM

You got more chips in the WCOAP didn"t you?

Temporarily

....

Take your point though for the UK based events.. however I have heard on more than one occasion that "£75 buyin isn"t worth going abroard to play in" etc.

Personally I treat the abroad trips as a mini holiday with the added bonus of an APAT event to play and socialise at. I wonder if the abroard trips would get more interest though and UK based players playing if the buy in and prize fund increased a little. When you"re paying a few hundred quid for flights and hotel, adding an extra £25+ onto the buyin really isnt going to make a huge difference.

Just my twopenneth x

Fatcatstu · « **Reply #5 on:** September 13, 2011, 19:58:50 PM »

Agree with john here.

Also Phil,you say that, but by the same token, is an extra 25 notes gonna make the trip any more artractive to the people who see no value in 75 quid?

shug · « **Reply #6 on:** September 13, 2011, 20:09:07 PM »

I like the idea of increasing the buy in. Travelling from Scotland for APAT events is not cheap (or easy) cheap flights may be readily available down south but up here its not the case. I cant even get to Cork because of lack of fights. sorry side rant must stay on point. Another £25 is nothing when my flights and hotel(has to be 2 nights) are already going to be over £200.

Honeybadg · « **Reply #7 on:** September 13, 2011, 20:18:38 PM »

Higher buy-ins would be good - I would always add give people more scope to qualify for them.

Alternative - have some re-buy events with existing buy-ins - people can then choose to attach or defend - whilst the pot gets pumped up.

Travel and hotel costs dwarf the buy-in - so incentive is to play local events with higher buy-ins.

L

Paulie_D · « **Reply #8 on:** September 13, 2011, 20:43:49 PM »

Quote from: Honeybadg on September 13, 2011, 20:18:38 PM

Higher buy-ins would be good - I would always add give people more scope to qualify for them.

Alternative - have some re-buy events with existing buy-ins - people can then choose to attach or defend - whilst the pot gets pumped up.

Travel and hotel costs dwarf the buy-in - so incentive is to play local events with higher buy-ins.

Higher buy-ins would be bad. I would always make these tournaments cheap enough to allow for new casual players to take part at a reasonable cost.

Re-buys....horrible idea favouring those with deeper pockets (see my first point above).

Yes, travel and hotels can overshadow the buy-ins...but now you want to increase the total and make it even worse for those of us who choose to travel?

If I wanted to play a higher buy-in comp with a worse structure and no social element, I could...but why would I?

If you cast your mind back to last year, we had a £250 comp on offer within APAT....didn"t take off now did it? I think that proves that the demand for higher buy-ins isn"t there even if a tiny minority might favour them. (Sorry Des).

Oh cr*p, I think I just agreed with Jon!

PHIL_TC · « **Reply #9 on:** September 13, 2011, 20:56:55 PM »

Quote from: Paulie_D on September 13, 2011, 20:43:49 PM

If you cast your mind back to last year, we had a £250 comp on offer within APAT....didn"t take off now did it? I think that proves that the demand for higher buy-ins isn"t there even if a tiny minority might favour them. (Sorry Des).

I don"t think anyones talking about a £175 increase Paulie, I definitely wouldnt pay £250 and I"m personally not a fan of the re-buy idea either. However if I"m paying for flights and hotel for several nights £25+ish aint gonna make any difference at all.. its only the cost of a round with Ger anyway

200 runners extra £5000+ in the pot might be some incentive for more players to get involved on the abroad trips. How many made the trip to Venice (sorry Vienna) last time? A dozen of us? Just being devils advocate as I"d go anyways regardless x

Paulie_D · « **Reply #10 on:** September 13, 2011, 21:03:14 PM »

I agree that £25 wouldn"t put me off (it might some) but an extra £75 would. I guess it depends on what level the people in favour of increasing the buy-ins are thinking of.

Let us also not forget that by increasing the buy-in we"d also (probably) increase the vig...which would have to be covered by sponsors (who are getting harder to find).

AJDUK · « **Reply #11 on:** September 13, 2011, 21:04:59 PM »

Leave it as it is. I see George is in every UKIPT event so can understand that £75 is getting a bit small fry for him. Maybe he has outgrown APAT and let"s face it some will always break out from our ranks and better themselves in tougher pricier fields and there"s nothing wrong with that. We all know George will make it.

Aside from the fact I enjoy the social aspect, I play APAT because it offers a great structure at an affordable price, and when there"s two of us to buy in it"s already not cheap. I/we would have to be much more choosy if it got more expensive to enter, and APAT visits would no longer be blacked out on my calendar. There"s plenty of £100/£150 events around - especially in the midlands, so if APAT became that price too then they just become like the rest.

A similar arguement gets thrown about from time to time about the world series ME. It"s been $10,000 for donkeys. Granted they introduced some high roller events to satisfy the pro"s but lets face it we tried that too for a season with the £250 series and it wasn"t exactly a roaring success.

Don"t fix what aint broke.

Waz1892 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 13, 2011, 21:22:56 PM »

I can understand the logic of varied buy-ins, but would hate the thought of a higher standard buy in for APAT games.

£75 is just about perfect for a irregular amateur players buyin (by amateur, I"m meaning social/occasional) which is the mass market within Poker, and the area to be tapped into mostly for APAT going forward, I would think.

That said, to accomodate the varied buy in option for the players seeking more value and prize money, without losing the social atompshere that APAT offers, I"d suggest the "abroad" trips have the higher buy in.

If your going to pay out for hotels, travel over a weekend (accepting others do already for UK venues aswell ("....all of the people, all of the time" etc)) then an extra £50-100 for the Buyin isn"t really an issue - one could argue.

$:-\$

George2Loose · « **Reply #13 on:** September 13, 2011, 22:01:34 PM »

Quote from: AJDUK on September 13, 2011, 21:04:59 PM

Leave it as it is. I see George is in every UKIPT event so can understand that £75 is getting a bit small fry for him. Maybe he has outgrown APAT and let"s face it some will always break out from our ranks and better themselves in tougher pricier fields and there"s nothing wrong with that. We all know George will make it.

Aside from the fact I enjoy the social aspect, I play APAT because it offers a great structure at an affordable price, and when there"s two of us to buy in it"s already not cheap. I/we would have to be much more choosy if it got more expensive to enter, and APAT visits would no longer be blacked out on my calendar. There"s plenty of £100/£150 events around - especially in the midlands, so if APAT became that price too then they just become like the rest.

A similar arguement gets thrown about from time to time about the world series ME. It"s been $10,000 for donkeys. Granted they introduced some high roller events to satisfy the pro"s but lets face it we tried that too for a season with the £250 series and it wasn"t exactly a roaring success.

Don"t fix what aint broke.

Re the buy in. Nothing to do with my personal motivation of wanting the tour to get any more expensive. Just opening up the debate. Sky have aimed for a similar market as APAT I believe and have upped the ante so to speak. Just wondering whether APAT would look to follow suit

AMRN · « **Reply #14 on:** September 13, 2011, 22:02:35 PM »

Yeah there are people who"ve been playing APATs for years, and have improved their game massively.... and are now paying £200/£300+ for their usual tourneys and I can understand why that might make the £75 APAT nationals seem a little small fry.

However, on the flip side, in my opinion, APAT is about bringing new players into the UK poker market, and keeping it affordable is essential to achieve this. As players develop, other tours may become more relevant for them - but that is not a reason for APAT to change.

If we adjust the APAT tour to fit with the it"s current players as they develop and improve, how will the tour achieve it"s aim of bringing in new blood?

Leave it as it is, and for those that want to spend more to justify travel expense etc, there are other more appropriate tours around. APAT does a marvellous job, and there is still a market gap for it to fill.