[Paulie_D]

paulie i"ll give you some credit- i dont think you missed my point. the point wasn"t the lack of "cheap" events, the point was and still is: no accessable games for regular APAT players for the rest of the year regardless of exact location in january

OK...I honestly thought I"d missed something.

The subject you raise is, perhaps, deserving of a thread of it"s own as it"s a scheduling thing rather than dealing with the overall "cheapness" of the events.

I agree that the "overall costlier" events (if one chooses to attend) have been bunched at the end of 2011 and I"m sure that"s something Des and Richard will be looking at for next year.

However, that is not really to the point of the buy-ins centred discussion in this thread....if you see what I mean.

[AJDUK]

2) I made a point to say vary the buy in. Not up them all. I"m just saying if APAT tried a couple more marquee events.

We already do vary the buy in. £75 standard and £100 for the worlds? However, I could be missing your point as I"m not sure what you mean by "marquee events".

4) If it ain"t broken don"t fix it!!! Sorry to single you out Andy but this phrase is the most frustrating of the lot. Where would we be if we had that attitude? Fixed payouts, no antes and no 150/300 level!!!

Apology not required! I take your point in general as yes it"s a lazy over used phrase, but I was referring directly to the buy-in. I don"t think APAT gained or lost many people from the tweaks you mention. The cost of buy-in is much more fundamental to the choice of whether to play or not. And I don"t think there"s compelling evidence to suggest APAT have got it wrong at the current level(s).

[Curlarge]

I"d like to raise another point, which is buy-in related.

The overseas events were designed, I believe, to spread the APAT word around Europe and also provide "away days" for those fortunate enough to be able to afford to go on them.

It seems to me that the word has been spread well by all those that have travelled, (despite the Chief Scouts exploits ) but we don"t see any overseas players from Euroland travelling here to play in our "home"events. The Irish guys come from hither and thither whenever and wherever there is a game and, transport allowing, so do the Scots. Travel is obv. easier for the Welsh boys and girls and they also come virtually come what may. Our friends from Canada and the USA play regularly and I know that my personal friends in the Portuguese team had the time of their lives at DTD, but have no plans to travel here for single events, as the Portuguese Poker Tour provides enough events (1 per month) for them. I assume that this is also true for France, Italy and the like.

Therefore are the Euro events just for those that have the means to pay that bit extra (and I am one who has been to almost all) or would the membership not be better served by more home events to cater for the undoubted demand.

My suggestion would be that there are no more than 2 "away" events per year with the remaining calender being evenly spread throughout the year, and country, but with the proviso that all events attract the same buy in, thus keeping it affordable for all. After all, whilst £4k is a lovely reward for a weekends poker at the current buy in, would increased buy-ins and first placed prizes of £4.5/5k change anyones life?

After all, I think most of us play for the friendship, competition and enjoyment first, and that any prize is a nice bonus.

[MintTrav]

The concept of APAT is about bringing value poker to the masses for affordable buy in - but I thought it was also about standardisation of the game.... and to achieve that, it has to gain exposure beyond the UK shores.

APAT is about bringing new players into the UK poker market

[Sef]

I know this has been discussed before.

But is it time to up/vary APAT buy ins for next season.

Sky have just announced their new tour which varies it"s buy ins and looks very exciting and is aimed at a similar market

Is APAT being left behind?

Before i have even read any other posts i totally disagree!! APAT in my opinion is aimed at a specific group of players i.e. amatuers with low to mid buy in options.....  they have built up a good name for themselves and kept to the original audience they wanted to stay with them!!

Affordable buy in, good structure, and most importantly friendly gaming. I actually want to raise a glass to APAT for this!! If you feel the same give me a glass raised!!

[PantsMan]

I"ll raise my glass to that!

Joining APAT was my first foray into bigger buy-in tournaments. It was never my intention to start playing them all the time but over time and meeting the people i"ve met through them they"ve become my favourite tournaments and when the schedule comes out I immediately start looking at which ones i can play.

For me APAT is all about the amateur player (hence the name!). Through APAT and through being in the BCPC i"ve been given the chance to play in both a UKIPT and a GUKPT. I couldn"t possibly afford to play in those any other way (although i did once spend my whole winnings from a tourney to play in a £500 deepstack but that was a one-off!). Therefore, playing the APAT events for me is a fantastic way to get to play in a 2 day deepstack for a reasonable buy-in.

I sometimes play other events where the buy-ins are higher but they are much more solitary affairs. Heading home from DTD having lost £100 playing in one of there events doesn"t come close to getting knocked out of an APAT event. One involves a long drive home thinking what I did wrong or what a bad beat i"ve just had. The other involves heading to the bar to see Ger, Scouse, Dan Owston, Paul McGuiness, Carl Lybert, Paul Pitchford, Jo Sharp, Debbie Kimm, Grant Speirs, JP Round, Jaxie, James Barber, the whole APAT crew, all the BCPC crew, the long suffering Mrs O etc etc etc etc etc etc and having a great night. That"s one thing the Sky Poker Tour and no other i"ve played at has got.

I"d love one day to be able to play all the time and have the dollar to afford to play the bigger events but until then i"ll keep on playing the APAT events as they"re a great way to get to play fantastically structured tourneys at a decent price, and more than that a fantastic way for amateur players to learn the game and to do so surrounded by some of the nicest people on the poker circuit, many of whom have become good friends. Had they been much more i doubt i"d have ever started playing them and that would be a big loss.

And besides, where else can you get to pay just £75 and get to play along such luminaries as Tony Trippier who won a bronze in the stud?!

[TightEnd]

Interesting debate again

Some points

- APAT and Sky Poker Tour are not necessarily looking to do the same thing. For example the SPT has a budget of (think of a number and double it) and at the recent Grand Final had NINE staff running it. Different animals, looking to do different things

- £75 buy ins, or £100 maybe, are where it is at for APAT. All APAT events are marquee events to my mind!

- I see no merit in asking overseas players at European events to pay £150-200 say for the equivalent event that you"d get at the English Amateur in Coventry. By going to European locations we are spreading the word about APAT and looking to mirror the experience that the UK players have. Whilst we obviously hope that many UK players travel across the primary aim I think everyone can see is a growth strategy. To a venue none of the European players we introduce to APAT get sub £100 10k 45m clock freezeouts with added value. Hence these events sell out and demand is there for more.

- There were various issues around this year"s schedule. For next year expect the same mix of National Championships in the UK, and new formats, plus overseas events. I don"t see that APAT is being left behind

- All that being said APAT's scope for next year depends in large part on the sponsorship market

- For those who want higher buy ins, APAT offered them in the Pro League and is offering it again in the London Pro-Am event this December. Next year, a variety of formats should be expected again

[TightEnd]

i agree that APATs place in the market is for aspiring amateurs looking for a good game at competative prices however things have changed. the worlds at nottingham were a great success but for the rest of the year there are no events left for those APAT regulars looking for a good game which kind of also ties in with the other thread about easy travel access to venues. i personally bookeded leave in advance on all APAT weekends - unfortunately Cork not easily accessable; Luton not possible unless u are part of a forum; vegas- bit far; london in december 250 pound buy-in; jan prague................
SO where has the cheap buyin game for the APAT regular gone?/

Yeah there are people who"ve been playing APATs for years, and have improved their game massively.... and are now paying £200/£300+ for their usual tourneys and I can understand why that might make the £75 APAT nationals seem a little small fry.

However, on the flip side, in my opinion, APAT is about bringing new players into the UK poker market, and keeping it affordable is essential to achieve this. As players develop, other tours may become more relevant for them - but that is not a reason for APAT to change.

If we adjust the APAT tour to fit with the it"s current players as they develop and improve, how will the tour achieve it"s aim of bringing in new blood?  

Leave it as it is, and for those that want to spend more to justify travel expense etc, there are other more appropriate tours around. APAT does a marvellous job, and there is still a market gap for it to fill.

the £75 APAT national championship has gone nowhere

It is merely the Season 5 schedule, and various planning issues around that, that meant most were in the first half of the year

[TightEnd]

The unsuccessful Pro-League may well be the argument against all future change ...

What was the aspiration behind the APAT starting the Pro-League?

What was it looking to acheive?

Would it still like to achieve those aims?

If more marquee events sold out would that prove a different point?

L

aspiration: to grow APAT into different player bases

Yes would still like to achieve that

All APAT events are thought by Des and I to be marquee events

[thinsy147]

My glass israised....

I was introduced to APAT and was immediately a fan. Why?

It was a chance to play a "champagne tournament at a lemonade price"

My normal game is against players who see suited cards as a good hand. With APAT the standard is good therefore the game is good. I could live with paying £100 but anything more would probably price me out.

Regarding the overseas events I think they need reconsidering. As said by someone else, locals play them because its there and don"t become regulars so should the games be focused more towards the UK? As for Las Vegas... What are APAT hoping to achieve with this? Yes, I would love to be going but i"m sure no LV locals will be rushing to the UK due to lack of games in their area!

[TightEnd]

Regarding the overseas events I think they need reconsidering. As said by someone else, locals play them because its there and don"t become regulars so should the games be focused more towards the UK? As for Las Vegas... What are APAT hoping to achieve with this? Yes, I would love to be going but i"m sure no LV locals will be rushing to the UK due to lack of games in their area!

It is not about the Overseas players becoming regulars. We don"t expect many to be coming over to the UK for events. A few do, same for UK players going over to Europe

Same for Vegas, it"s about growing APAT's reach, membership base and long term aspirations.

The task for the organiser is to satisfy the requirements of the core UK player base, and grow the APAT concept/brand too

Over 5 seasons, we do that I think!

[deanp27]

Wouldnt change much except round the buy in up to £100, don"t think I would vary buyin except for main event

[Mikeyboy9361]

Lots of good points, but don"t change it IMHO  

[1TRW1]

I sometimes play other events where the buy-ins are higher but they are much more solitary affairs. Heading home from DTD having lost £100 playing in one of there events doesn"t come close to getting knocked out of an APAT event. One involves a long drive home thinking what I did wrong or what a bad beat i"ve just had. The other involves heading to the bar to see Ger, Scouse, Dan Owston, Paul McGuiness, Carl Lybert, Paul Pitchford, Jo Sharp, Debbie Kimm, Grant Speirs, JP Round, Jaxie, James Barber, the whole APAT crew, all the BCPC crew, the long suffering Mrs O etc etc etc etc etc etc and having a great night.

You left out Surinder Sunar.  

[PHIL_TC]

I sometimes play other events where the buy-ins are higher but they are much more solitary affairs. Heading home from DTD having lost £100 playing in one of there events doesn"t come close to getting knocked out of an APAT event. One involves a long drive home thinking what I did wrong or what a bad beat i"ve just had. The other involves heading to the bar to see Ger, Scouse, Dan Owston, Paul McGuiness, Carl Lybert, Paul Pitchford, Jo Sharp, Debbie Kimm, Grant Speirs, JP Round, Jaxie, James Barber, the whole APAT crew, all the BCPC crew, the long suffering Mrs O etc etc etc etc etc etc and having a great night.

And wheres the Stockton Massive??  :"(