Season 6 Discussion

[TightEnd]

[TheHitman.23]

London Venue ??

[TightEnd]

London Venue ??

Have been to the Vic before, do Luton most years which is 40 minutes away

Nothing against a London venue, apart from the expenses being dearer for most people

[mporter123]

Option 1 would be my preference in the short term as it is low risk.

I can see that in the long run - option 3 is the most likely revenue generating option. I would have thought that the competencies required for running and organising a tour are very different to those needed for running a successful online poker room.

I do think that with some more marketing every APAT event could be a 3 day"er - not sure if this is the desired direction though. I see no reason why APAT does not charge a reg fee in the current climate. Introducing a reg fee is not likely to alienate the vast majority of members as it is just the norm in poker tournaments. Also not having a reg fee is not enough of an incentive to make someone choose to play an APAT tournament over another tournament. If we can prove that a 10% reg fee would not decrease numbers with a test event then I think it should be introduced.

Its the difference between £1K per event that can go into the budget for other things like growing the player base. Plus it creates a nice virtuous circle as your total rake increases as the player base increases.

[Desi]

I would happily pay a reg fee, and Im sure the majority would agree to this.

[Paulie_D]

Further to the above post by Mark...perhaps this got "involved" with the other idea that I had (which I may come back to depending on the reply)

The APAT ethos has always been "Reg Free" but I think it"s clear that this is not sustainable in the current climate. so I"ll ask it again.

Des....

Is a reg. fee completely out of the question for APAT events? Say 10%...cheaper than most and anything else could be made up from sponsorship / revenue?

If the answer is "No "Live" Reg Fee Ever" then we know what we are looking at. It"s a lovely idea but considering where we are, is it practical?

[dwh103]

Whilst adding a reg fee would not be a problem for any APAT regular, in a time where many local poker rooms are upping reg fees on smaller tournaments, it then removes a facet that differentiates APAT from the competition. The whole feeling/ethos of APAT is "For the player" and not having reg fees is probably the cleanest and best way to advertise/explain this to the general poker playing public. The reg fee won"t stop people from playing, but the APAT message gets lost for me - it just becomes another tournament. If APAT is to grow as a poker brand it really needs as much help as possible.

Same as Glenn, I was thinking of the same poker forum cum site that is no longer in existence. If the contract minefield can be negotiated then I shall remove my nuts from the table and stick the car keys back in the pocket as I think it would be best way to take APAT to the next level.

I echo AOTR with the marketing stuff (I don"t think 3 day events are the answer, holidays required and the bank holiday competition is as strong as it comes). I tell plenty of people about APAT, but with nothing tangible it"s soon forgotten. I know a number of people who would play them, but it needs to be made easy for them! I"d certainly be happy to assist in Southampton (if still living here).

Would APAT consider guaranteeing prize pools at Nationals? Say £8-10k guaranteed depending on capacity. You"ll always reach the figure, but "guaranteed" is a big seller. If I see a £50-100 buy-in on the Hendon Mob database, without further knowledge I"m only going to assume it gets 50 or so runners from experience and probably not bother with it. I"d like to see a select number of events with upped capacities being given a real push in S6 (regardless of the option chosen).

[Paulie_D]

Would APAT consider guaranteeing prize pools at Nationals? Say £8-10k guaranteed depending on capacity. You"ll always reach the figure, but "guaranteed" is a big seller.

But it"s a con...as you admitted...that"s not "APAT" either.

[Des]

I can see that in the long run - option 3 is the most likely revenue generating option. I would have thought that the competencies required for running and organising a tour are very different to those needed for running a successful online poker room.

As luck would have it we"re unusually well experienced in that department.  

[dwh103]

Would APAT consider guaranteeing prize pools at Nationals? Say £8-10k guaranteed depending on capacity. You"ll always reach the figure, but "guaranteed" is a big seller.

But it"s a con...as you admitted...that"s not "APAT" either.

How is a guarantee a con? It"s a safeguard for players who are willing to travel and show up who might not otherwise do so.

[mporter123]

Whilst adding a reg fee would not be a problem for any APAT regular, in a time where many local poker rooms are upping reg fees on smaller tournaments, it then removes a facet that differentiates APAT from the competition.

I don't believe that people play APAT's because they are Reg free. Yes, it is a differentiator but, as said previously, I don't believe it is one that is really noticed or that relevant.

APAT's differentiator and past success has been based upon offering a well structured, well run, relatively low buy in tournament that offers a "big tournament" feel. It is still true today that your average casino tournament quickly becomes a crapshoot - APAT offers you an alternative to this. That's the APAT message. A registration fee does not dilute that message.

[Des]

Further to the above post by Mark...perhaps this got "involved" with the other idea that I had (which I may come back to depending on the reply)

The APAT ethos has always been "Reg Free" but I think it"s clear that this is not sustainable in the current climate. so I"ll ask it again.

Des....

Is a reg. fee completely out of the question for APAT events? Say 10%...cheaper than most and anything else could be made up from sponsorship / revenue?

If the answer is "No "Live" Reg Fee Ever" then we know what we are looking at. It"s a lovely idea but considering where we are, is it practical?

Never say never of course, but I"m proud of the fact that APAT have effectively paid the registration fee of every player who has ever participated in a live APAT event over five years.  That"s an incredible "pro-player" statement to be able to make and I"d personally hate to lose it.

That said, I"ve been considering other ways that we could reward our member base if we go down the route of option 3.  For example I could see APAT setting aside a % of net revenues for players - and essentialy you guys would get the opportunity to become shareholders.  So perhaps there is a revenue generation opportunity there that I need to consider further.

[Des]

Whilst adding a reg fee would not be a problem for any APAT regular, in a time where many local poker rooms are upping reg fees on smaller tournaments, it then removes a facet that differentiates APAT from the competition. The whole feeling/ethos of APAT is "For the player" and not having reg fees is probably the cleanest and best way to advertise/explain this to the general poker playing public. The reg fee won"t stop people from playing, but the APAT message gets lost for me - it just becomes another tournament. If APAT is to grow as a poker brand it really needs as much help as possible.

Same as Glenn, I was thinking of the same poker forum cum site that is no longer in existence. If the contract minefield can be negotiated then I shall remove my nuts from the table and stick the car keys back in the pocket as I think it would be best way to take APAT to the next level.

I echo AOTR with the marketing stuff (I don"t think 3 day events are the answer, holidays required and the bank holiday competition is as strong as it comes). I tell plenty of people about APAT, but with nothing tangible it"s soon forgotten. I know a number of people who would play them, but it needs to be made easy for them! I"d certainly be happy to assist in Southampton (if still living here).

Would APAT consider guaranteeing prize pools at Nationals? Say £8-10k guaranteed depending on capacity. You"ll always reach the figure, but "guaranteed" is a big seller. If I see a £50-100 buy-in on the Hendon Mob database, without further knowledge I"m only going to assume it gets 50 or so runners from experience and probably not bother with it. I"d like to see a select number of events with upped capacities being given a real push in S6 (regardless of the option chosen).

Agreed with majority of points above, but don"t think guarantees are the way to go.  If that is to become a USP, then we would not compete with some of our competitors and I"d be worried about creating that comparison.

It"s key that we market effectively and create an even greater sense of theatre and excitement around our events. Our USP lies in the community and giving you guys the best weekend away possible. 

We were not at all incentivised to run big field events during the second half of season five for various reasons and that is why we allowed the live event numbers to decrease.  It may be a bit cryptic, but sometimes you need to fight fire with fire.

[Paulie_D]

Would APAT consider guaranteeing prize pools at Nationals? Say £8-10k guaranteed depending on capacity. You"ll always reach the figure, but "guaranteed" is a big seller.

But it"s a con...as you admitted...that"s not "APAT" either.

How is a guarantee a con? It"s a safeguard for players who are willing to travel and show up who might not otherwise do so.

Without wishing to continue this point overmuch...APAT has, to my knowledge, ALWAYS sold out it"s live events...more so (if that"s possible) at the events with seats under the 200 mark.

Advertising a guarantee that you KNOW you"ll never have to pay...that"s a con...at least for an organisation with the ethos such as APAT's.

EDIT...Oops, I see Des has always replied.

BTW, USP standard for Unique Selling Point...in case anyone was wondering.

[Des]

Would APAT consider guaranteeing prize pools at Nationals? Say £8-10k guaranteed depending on capacity. You"ll always reach the figure, but "guaranteed" is a big seller.

But it"s a con...as you admitted...that"s not "APAT" either.

How is a guarantee a con? It"s a safeguard for players who are willing to travel and show up who might not otherwise do so.

Without wishing to continue this point overmuch...APAT has, to my knowledge, ALWAYS sold out it"s live events...more so (if that"s possible) at the events with seats under the 200 mark.

Advertising a guarantee that you KNOW you"ll never have to pay...that"s a con...at least for an organisation with the ethos such as APAT's.

I tend to agree with Paulie here.  To my knowledge there is only one event that I think we properly ****ed up, and that was the event in Cork mid last year.  That aside, we generally have a good degree of control over the numbers we generate and have the ability to sell out every event. 

I"d like to be in a position next year where we can host a greater number of bigger events, but let"s see the budget we establish first.  That is the key determining factor, given the fantastic support that a large number of players give us.