Live Hand - Circus September 2 dayer

[ForthThistle]

I need to post this. Please help me understand.

Final Table with 10 Players. there is £18.3K to play for.
This is the 3rd Hand of the final Table.
Blinds are 8K and 16K with a 1K ante

I shoved the first hand UTG but got it through.
The Hand
Mp guy"s shoves for 119K.
I have 133K on the button,
I look down on the button with 77 and tank shove. (I need to Double up)
The SB has 500K and tanks and tanks and calls.
BB gets out of the way.

Cards over and as follows.
Mp - 6d6c
Me - 7s7d
SB - Qh10h

This is for a 375K pot.

Flop is
Turn is
River

Is the SB call Bad cal.

Opinions Please.

[deanp27]

Ok it"s a loose call for sure but what are you going to learn from it. You can"t play your hand any other way

[AMRN]

If you really wanted opinions on the Q10, you should have turned the hand round and said that MP and button both shoved.... you find Q10 in the SB..... what should you do?  Then gauge the general consensus.

[bhoywonder70]

Sometimes there is no analysis.....awful call.....can"t imagine what he was thinking....maybe his favourite hand?.....drunk?

[WYoung83]

 Dont think its a "horrible" call, although i wouldnt make it. Hes getting just under 2.5-1 so he needs about 33%.
My numbers are probably a bit off. 
Calling in spots like this has some added benefits. He has the chance to knock 2 people out and get a massive stack. Even if he looses people will see that he calls light, so he may get a few walks.

[thinsy147]

Not a call I would particularly make but as said previously, he has the opportunity to knock two players out and only cost him 133K, to which he already has 8K in (sb). What was the BB"s stack size? If he was below 133K then you could consider him joining in for value which would make the QT call a good odds gamble for a well chipped player!!

[noble1]

First off well done and a big congrats David on final tabling..

Ref - was it a Bad call?

maybe he saw 2 pretty cards and 2/1 and calls..
maybe he read your tank thought as you had something dubious and thus decided to gamble.

if it was me i"d call partly because of the tank and because of risk/award.. all on how everyone else is stack wise and where they would be seated in relation to me.
i have a 31bb approx stack but if i win i KO 2 players ladder up 2 places and increase my stack to approx 50bb, if i lose i will have approx 23bb left. Also if i lose, i only lose those chips to the right, if i win [50bb stack] i maybe able to engineer a totally different FT dynamic.. [all on how the stack sizes are/were seated at the time]

this sort of concept was bought up by gigabet, the gigabet dilemma taking a slight -ev gamble for the future $ev of having the bigger stack.
interesting stuff and a lot of the theory still applies imho..

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4524424&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1

anyhoooos ul David in the end, there wasn"t much else you could do...

regards
noble

[Mikeyboy9361]

Well played Dave, didn"t realise you had FT"d, great effort.

About the Call. I play in some tournaments where this type of call is made regularly!! And I can see the guys thinking, knock out 2 players and become a big stack, or drop down to 23BB, ideal re stealing and re shoving stack, so still well in the game. Don"t think I would have made it 3rd hand of a FT, but then again.....

[Honeybadg]

I think it is a superb call with a view to winning the tournament ... it"s only a bad call if "he" thinks there is some JJ+ out there.

If the hands are:

AK : 35%
77 or underpair : 31%
QTs : 34%

If more likely the case :

A8 : 28%
77 or underpair : 31%
QTs : 41%

Even at the following - no bad value.

JJ : 53%
77 : 19%
QTs : 28%

So flip it round - if you know he had QTs and a big stack - do you shove?

L

[WYoung83]

 In the future, perhaps people should construct threads in this section differently. If you had said that you shoved with the 77s, and the SB (getting 2.3-1) goes into the tank, then ask the question what should his calling range here be?

Then i think you will get more honest or fair answers sometimes. Because lots of people are (wrongly) results orianted. Maybe for this particular thread it didnt make much difference. Because i think his calling range here is 66+  AJ+ any suited broadways.

[MintTrav]

If you really wanted opinions on the Q10, you should have turned the hand round and said that MP and button both shoved.... you find Q10 in the SB..... what should you do?  Then gauge the general consensus.

I hate when people do this. It may be for genuine reasons in this case, but it usually seems to be done in the hope of attracting some adverse comments, which can then be turned to prove to someone else how terribly they played their hand and sucked out.

[Tiger-flash]

If you really wanted opinions on the Q10, you should have turned the hand round and said that MP and button both shoved.... you find Q10 in the SB..... what should you do?  Then gauge the general consensus.

I hate when people do this. It may be for genuine reasons in this case, but it usually seems to be done in the hope of attracting some adverse comments, which can then be turned to prove to someone else how terribly they played their hand and sucked out.

Ditto! a pair of sevens? ..... just fold

[mousebob]

FWIW I fold 77 in this spot.
Like to get my chips in with fold equity & it is a FT !
Don"t like the SB call though.

[jjandellis]

First off well done and a big congrats David on final tabling..

Ref - was it a Bad call?

maybe he saw 2 pretty cards and 2/1 and calls..
maybe he read your tank thought as you had something dubious and thus decided to gamble.

if it was me i"d call partly because of the tank and because of risk/award.. all on how everyone else is stack wise and where they would be seated in relation to me.
i have a 31bb approx stack but if i win i KO 2 players ladder up 2 places and increase my stack to approx 50bb, if i lose i will have approx 23bb left. Also if i lose, i only lose those chips to the right, if i win [50bb stack] i maybe able to engineer a totally different FT dynamic.. [all on how the stack sizes are/were seated at the time]

this sort of concept was bought up by gigabet, the gigabet dilemma taking a slight -ev gamble for the future $ev of having the bigger stack.
interesting stuff and a lot of the theory still applies imho..

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4524424&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1

anyhoooos ul David in the end, there wasn"t much else you could do...

regards
noble

I think it is a superb call with a view to winning the tournament ... it"s only a bad call if "he" thinks there is some JJ+ out there.

If the hands are:

AK : 35%
77 or underpair : 31%
QTs : 34%

If more likely the case :

A8 : 28%
77 or underpair : 31%
QTs : 41%

Even at the following - no bad value.

JJ : 53%
77 : 19%
QTs : 28%

So flip it round - if you know he had QTs and a big stack - do you shove?

L

Definitely these 2. Both you and the original shover have a really wide range here...but more importantly what was the payout structure? If its very top heavy then I think its a superb call.If he loses he"s down to c. 367 k (M of 10ish), but if he wins he"s knocked out 2 players and gotten himself a very playable stack of c. 766k.

Obviously that sets him up very nicely to win the lot. Can you remember the prize structure?