Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: ian.ski309 on February 01, 2012, 19:42:17 PM
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This happened towards the end of a home game last week. I"d be interested to know what the ruling would or should have been had it happened during a live tournament in a casino and the floor had been called in these circumstances....
A player with a 12K stack limps for 1600 chips in early position, I shove my 14K with KK on the button and then the BB also shoves his last 7K. The action folds around to the limper.
Whilst the limper is pondering, the BB lifts up the corners of his cards and shows his AA to other players at the table. The limper who is still to act, catches sight of the hand and promptly mucks his cards, thereby denying me a potential side pot.
You are the floor, I"m absolutely furious - what now ?
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Sucks ...
but as far as I"m aware, "AA" hand exposed is still live, you are both all in and cannot make any further action and hand plays out. If BB wins the pot then he "should" be given a penalty for exposing hand (orbit or 3 hand sit out etc). You are within your rights to shout for a King as loud as you can and fist pump when it comes ;)
If, on other hand there were chips behind then BB player would not be able to make any further aggressive action, he can only call any further bets.
I believe the above to be correct in most places but wait for others to respond.
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What she said.
Although, some places will declare a deliberately exposed hand dead.
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Depends who"s home it is. obv.
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Live hand but penalty for the guy, if it was my home game the penalty would be a good kicking. I"d also penalise the guy limping with 8bbs and then tanking for being terrible
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Sigh its a home game, happens all the time. Nowt ya can do, UL
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This happened towards the end of a home game last week. I"d be interested to know what the ruling would or should have been had it happened during a live tournament in a casino and the floor had been called in these circumstances....
A player with a 12K stack limps for 1600 chips in early position, I shove my 14K with KK on the button and then the BB also shoves his last 7K. The action folds around to the limper.
Whilst the limper is pondering, the BB lifts up the corners of his cards and shows his AA to other players at the table. The limper who is still to act, catches sight of the hand and promptly mucks his cards, thereby denying me a potential side pot.
You are the floor, I"m absolutely furious - what now ?
No more action, at least a 1 orbit sit out and cancel any further invites to the player. Strange that the Limper managed to see the cards!
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Strange that the Limper managed to see the cards!
The limper and the BB are mates, they are both 19 yrs old and both overestimate their own ability. I"d like to think that this situation was merely youthful naivety, but I suspect that the BB was just trying to save his mate from losing a chunk of chips. I"m in no rush to invite them again... ;)
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Home game the ruling would be a high 5 right in his face. Sounds like it was a blatant "fold I got aces" move. Casino it would be live hand but defo a penalty. And a high 5 right in his face. ;)
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If it was in a casino card room, with action still to follow the "AA" player, his deliberately exposed hand should be declared dead, as he is obviously affecting the actions of the limper who is still to act behind him. Now whether it would be is probably down to the size of the TD"s balls, how loud each player shouts and if he is mates with any of the players. In a home game, you just have to swallow these things, that"s why people play in casinos. ;)
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If it was in a casino card room, with action still to follow the "AA" player, his deliberately exposed hand should be declared dead, as he is obviously affecting the actions of the limper who is still to act behind him. Now whether it would be is probably down to the size of the TD"s balls, how loud each player shouts and if he is mates with any of the players. In a home game, you just have to swallow these things, that"s why people play in casinos. ;)
The AA is never a dead hand (subject to house rules)* but it would have to be turned over and shown to all parties still in the hand and would still be live.
Whether the AA player chooses to make any action is still up to him...you cannot force him to bet.
Penalty would be assessed after the hand is over.
*Roberts Rules of Poker
22. Showing cards from a live hand during the action injures the rights of other players still competing in an event, who wish to see contestants eliminated. A player in a multihanded pot may not show any cards during a deal. Heads-up, a player may not show any cards unless the event has only two remaining players, or is winner-take-all. If a player deliberately shows a card, the player may be penalized (but his hand will not be ruled dead). Verbally stating one's hand during the play may be penalized.
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Live hand but penalty for the guy, if it was my home game the penalty would be a good kicking. I"d also penalise the guy limping with 8bbs and then tanking for being terrible
Currently being written into my home game rules... :D
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Now whether it would be is probably down to the size of the TD"s balls, how loud each player shouts and if he is mates with any of the players
This is obviously a joke without the smiley at the end.
If anyone new to the game is reading this I can tell you that TDs (Tournament directors) are the people that oversee the tournament and are called over by the dealer if there is a ruling decision.
TDs in licensed UK Casinos are honest and fair, give a strict interpretation of the rules regardless of whether it is for a local player who they know well or a player visiting for the first time.
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Any TD who declared the AA a dead hand isn"t worth paying for and should be put against the wall and shot.
The fact that is it might be a house rule would not reduce the sentence as they are obviously guilty of not having the rule changed.
No, I"ll be fair...we"ll still shoot him if it is a house rule...I"ll just tell the guys to aim ABOVE the waist. ;D
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Any TD who declared the AA a dead hand isn"t worth paying for and should be put against the wall and shot.
The trouble is there are no set rules for poker either in the UK or the US.
The TDA are trying to change this. This link is for the latest TDA rules http://www.pokertda.com/poker-tda-rules/
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Any TD who declared the AA a dead hand isn"t worth paying for and should be put against the wall and shot.
The trouble is there are no set rules for poker either in the UK or the US.
The TDA are trying to change this. This link is for the latest TDA rules http://www.pokertda.com/poker-tda-rules/
This is true but the TDAs rules are deliberately a lot shorter than the "overall" "rulebook".
Even so the TDA wouldn"t kill the hand..
A penalty may be invoked if a player exposes any card with action pending, throws a card off the table, violates the one-player-to-a-hand rule, or similar incidents occur. Penalties will be invoked in cases of soft play, abuse, disruptive behavior, or cheating. Penalties available to the tournament director include verbal warnings, "missed hand" penalties, and disqualification.
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Without getting into it too much (2+2 wise)...players seem to be of the opinion that hands should be ruled dead as a penalty and that"s almost impossible to justify.