Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: clynd99 on January 13, 2008, 15:12:55 PM
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What are peoples opinions on rebuy tournaments?
As the post header may suggest, I think they stink. I know Mr Tikay has been having a bit of a pop at them on the Poker Week show in recent times, and I agree with what he has said about them, but from more of a play perspective rather than an organizational one, I have never played in a rebuy tourney where I"ve actually enjoyed or been impressed with the play.
Okay, "stay away from them then," you might say, but it"s not that easy is it? They"re everywhere. With my work situation the times I can get to the local casino is quite restricted, and it always seems like when I get a free afternoon or night it"s a £5 cowing rebuy, and I always end up going anyway, thinking the live experience will do me good, but I"m wrong aren"t I? The experience I get live in a £5 rebuy is not the same as what a live freezeout tourney is, is it, because the play is so different.
Which brings me onto Blue Square. I signed up to the site when I signed up to APAT, and have played on there very little. Looking around the lobby on occassions over the past few weeks I"m noticing that nearly every tourney is a rebuy contest. (Sure, you can filter them out at the loss of most of the lobby"s content).
To top it all I recently had a email from them pointing out the GUKPT satellites on the site and decided to chance my arm in one of the freerolls. I went broke early on when my full house was beaten by a bigger house and to my suprise an option came up saying "REBUY $0.25". What is the point of that? It"s not even a freeroll anymore. What do the site get out of rebuy tourneys? Why do they insist on running so many of them? Why is every GUKPT satellite a rebuy, why cant they mix it up a bit and give their members the choice of dodging these crapshoots?
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tbh i play rebuy tourneys the same as i would a freezout, if i bust out then i bust out, but IMO you have a very good chance to build up a good chip stack by beating the players who go in with marginal hands.
gukpt: yes these freerolls have gone to rebuys. The reason for this is think is that probably bsq are putting on so many freerolls to the gukpt, magazine freerolls, daily freerolls etc etc, that the odd 25c here and there go towards paying for some of these freerolls, the point being is they are still offering you the chance to get to a gukpt final for nothing if you make it, nothing to complain about in my opinion.
Rebuy tournaments are very popular, you only need to see the numbers that play them, what they give the site i dont know, but I know they offer the players a chance at winning for 1 buy in, giving you the decision if you want to pay more.
I am not a fan of the rebuy tournaments, but can see why they are there..
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I hate them with a passion.... they are not poker when compared to a decent Freezout with a proper stack. But still, I play them. I tend to limit myself to two buy ins, or if have not rebought, then will add on.
The standard high street casino weekday rebuy competition give you a starting stack of 1000 chips and blinds of 25/50, and 20 minute blind levels. So, you start with only 20 BBs, and are almost pot committed with only a standard raise. Then, if you rebuy in level 2 (50/100) you are buying into AllIn/Fold territory (less than 10 BBs).
Stupid, and not poker.
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I hate them as well, and try and avoid them like the plague. I recently entered a Freeroll on BSQ, to the GUKPT. Qualified for a place in the buy in later the same day I was really looking forward to it and started playing, but quickly thought what the hell is going on these guys are crazy, playing ridiculous hands. It didn"t take me long to then realise it was a rebuy! I played pretty well and got about half way when I crashed out, but made the decision not to re buy.... thats my position now, I won"t play them unless I qualify and then don"t re buy.
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re buys are pi#s the only let bad players get lucky.Just my type of game. lol
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A freeroll satellite to a rebuy tourney........
I know we"re probably supposed to be nice to the Blue Sq people, but some of them clearly need shoeing.
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A freeroll satellite to a rebuy tourney........
I know we"re probably supposed to be nice to the Blue Sq people, but some of them clearly need shoeing.
I just dont understand what the problem is, and im not on the bsq bandwagon because I hate ipoker, but they are giving you the chance to play a £1100 tournament and qualify for as many as you want for nothing, 3 times a day 7 days a week.. not bad imo.
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The Blue Square Freeroll/rebuy satellites are a bargain, but...
more generally I"d have to go with the consensus that rebuys just promote bad poker. They may be popular but I"d suggest that is because most people who play poker don"t really know what they are doing and are just gambling (remember that"s an awful lot of people, who never read poker books or poker forums or do any kind of analysis) - just because something is popular, doesn"t make it good.
It"s because of this reason that the live venues offer so many rebuys, I think I"ve seen one casino at least who didn"t offer any freezeouts in their standard weekly schedule and one of my local poker clubs only has the one - and that"s their league tournament.
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I used to have the same opinion regarding re buys. But as long as you enter them with your eyes open you can use the rebuy period to your advantage. Also to consistantly do well you need to use judgement on whether to rebuy, but not to discount rebuying. Typically anything up to 3-5 rebuys including addons.
So don"t think of as a 5$ rebuy the same as a $5 freezeout, more like a $15-20 freezeout, but with weaker opposition, and the payout can be much higher than even a $15-20 freezeout.
Yes they can be VERY frustrating, but a field of weak fish over playing their hands - what more do you want?????
;D
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I used to have the same opinion regarding re buys. But as long as you enter them with your eyes open you can use the rebuy period to your advantage. Also to consistantly do well you need to use judgement on whether to rebuy, but not to discount rebuying. Typically anything up to 3-5 rebuys including addons.
So don"t think of as a 5$ rebuy the same as a $5 freezeout, more like a $15-20 freezeout, but with weaker opposition, and the payout can be much higher than even a $15-20 freezeout.
Yes they can be VERY frustrating, but a field of weak fish over playing their hands - what more do you want?????
;D
Great Post
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£10/£20 rebuys are the only tournaments available without me having to travel to DTD in my area.
I do quite enjoy them as i just enjoy the live poker experience anyway, i do tend to steer clear of online rebuys as strangely i don"t enjoy them online.
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I used to have the same opinion regarding re buys. But as long as you enter them with your eyes open you can use the rebuy period to your advantage. Also to consistantly do well you need to use judgement on whether to rebuy, but not to discount rebuying. Typically anything up to 3-5 rebuys including addons.
So don"t think of as a 5$ rebuy the same as a $5 freezeout, more like a $15-20 freezeout, but with weaker opposition, and the payout can be much higher than even a $15-20 freezeout.
Yes they can be VERY frustrating, but a field of weak fish over playing their hands - what more do you want?????
;D
I don"t entirely agree.
I think that rebuy tournaments which limit the number of times you can rebuy do promote a different skill set in much the manner you are suggesting.
However, in unlimited rebuy tournaments you can do well by playing tightly and being a bit more intelligent about when you pick and choose the pots to play and the times you rebuy, but your best chance of success is to play like a maniac and get lucky - hence it promotes bad play.
That said, I am quite tempted to play the £2.50 rebuy at one of my local poker clubs just to see how manic it can get :)
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I disagree, even with unlimited rebuys online once you are playing $5 or high intelligent play and picking your spots will work over the long haul. Also if you have an even basic knowledge of pot odds you can do worse than to bite the bullet and aknowledge that it"s going to be frustrating (a bit like ohama high/low - which I love sooooo many fish)
Anything lower than this FORGET it, as you say too many bad players, playing really badly.
Also live same applies maybe £5, but more likely need to be at least £10 rebuys. I have to admit I"ve never entered a live rebuy tourney, so only an educated guess. I do love the double chance tournies live though!
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You gotta love the poker purists, who hate rebuys!!! lol
Listen guys it"s just another variant of poker, "it"s NLH Jim but not as the purists know it." It"s a completely different game to freezeout poker, PLH and limited rebuy poker.
Generally those who dont like rebuy tournaments or those who don"t like deep stack freezeouts, to give the flip side of the coin, are those that cannot change their game to adapt to the different format.
Me I love "em all. 8) 8) 8)
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p.s. of course what"s really good about rebuys is that it attracts the gamblers who are attracted to the percieved value of the tournaments and I got nothing against gambling fish wanting to play poker, it"s what we should all want. 8)
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I changed the way I play rebuys after watching Chris Moorman (a young poker pro who ranks very highly in terms of tournament winnings in the UK) in action.
I play the $3 rebuys on Stars to sat in to the Sunday Million occasionally, and must say that there"s a way to play them to do well consistently.
To start with, you don"t look at it as a $3 tourney. Look at it instead as a $30 tourney. From the start, play like a donk. Shove in with pretty much any two cards, best done on the flop. You"ll win a few pots uncontested usually, but someone will call you. You will lose (or outdraw them, which is amusing).
Anyway, repeat that a few times, and then you have a table that is full of chips, full of players on tilt (who are treating it as a freezeout or have limited rebuys in mind), and you will eventually get a big hand and double up. Then you can bully the shorter stacks throughout the rebuy period.
At the end of the rebuy, you will have a decent stack (hopefully, or course it doesn"t always work), and it"s probably cost about 10 rebuys, if not more.
Then you start playing poker. The others at the table won"t recognise this and some seem to forget that the rebuy period is over. Hopefully, you can mop up the chips at your table and then you have an advantage over the players on other tables.
I"ve seen other players do it, and not only is it effective - it"s also jolly good fun!
It does mean that those with the bigger pockets for a rebuy are at a distinct advantage. Playing a rebuy scared (in terms of limited buy-ins) is not the way I"d suggest they"re played. To get the most out of them long-term, I"d recommend playing in rebuys that you can afford to reload 10 times (if not more).
If there are so many bad players in rebuys (as Gordon mentioned), then surely there must be a way to beat them?
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... From the start, play like a donk. Shove in with pretty much any two cards, best done on the flop. You"ll win a few pots uncontested usually, but someone will call you. You will lose (or outdraw them, which is amusing).
Anyway, repeat that a few times, and then you have a table that is full of chips, full of players on tilt (who are treating it as a freezeout or have limited rebuys in mind), and you will eventually get a big hand and double up. ...
This is precisely what I mean.
The elements of play after this point - such as taking advantage of those who don"t stop playing like it"s a rebuy even when they"re in the freezeout part - remain the same however you play the rebuy part.
Therefore the difference is the rebuy period and the best (as in most likely to get you a win) way to play them promotes bad play.
Ergo - rebuys are bad. QED (or more precisely QEF - but you"d probably have to look that up)
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... From the start, play like a donk. Shove in with pretty much any two cards, best done on the flop. You"ll win a few pots uncontested usually, but someone will call you. You will lose (or outdraw them, which is amusing).
Anyway, repeat that a few times, and then you have a table that is full of chips, full of players on tilt (who are treating it as a freezeout or have limited rebuys in mind), and you will eventually get a big hand and double up. ...
This is precisely what I mean.
The elements of play after this point - such as taking advantage of those who don"t stop playing like it"s a rebuy even when they"re in the freezeout part - remain the same however you play the rebuy part.
Therefore the difference is the rebuy period and the best (as in most likely to get you a win) way to play them promotes bad play.
Ergo - rebuys are bad. QED (or more precisely QEF - but you"d probably have to look that up)
No, it promotes "different" play. Same as when you"re short-stacked.
and have to shove with pretty much ATC. You wouldn"t do that at the start of a deepstack FO, but you might towards the end as the blinds rocket and your stack plummets. Doesn"t mean it"s "bad" play.
QED, QEF..... GFY.
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QED, QEF..... GFY.
:D I can"t top that :D
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... From the start, play like a donk. Shove in with pretty much any two cards, best done on the flop. You"ll win a few pots uncontested usually, but someone will call you. You will lose (or outdraw them, which is amusing).
Anyway, repeat that a few times, and then you have a table that is full of chips, full of players on tilt (who are treating it as a freezeout or have limited rebuys in mind), and you will eventually get a big hand and double up. ...
This is precisely what I mean.
The elements of play after this point - such as taking advantage of those who don"t stop playing like it"s a rebuy even when they"re in the freezeout part - remain the same however you play the rebuy part.
Therefore the difference is the rebuy period and the best (as in most likely to get you a win) way to play them promotes bad play.
Ergo - rebuys are bad. QED (or more precisely QEF - but you"d probably have to look that up)
No, it promotes "different" play. Same as when you"re short-stacked.
and have to shove with pretty much ATC. You wouldn"t do that at the start of a deepstack FO, but you might towards the end as the blinds rocket and your stack plummets. Doesn"t mean it"s "bad" play.
QED, QEF..... GFY.
OMG, we agree again. This is getting bad. NHWPGTFLMFAOUYM!!!
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Agree with GImac just adapt.
Agree with Dan too however it doesnt always go to plan! Sometimes u end up stuck 30 bucks with not much of a stack at the break!
Personally I dont play rebuy sattys cos they end up costing me- love the 3r on stars and 10r on blue square
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... From the start, play like a donk. Shove in with pretty much any two cards, best done on the flop. You"ll win a few pots uncontested usually, but someone will call you. You will lose (or outdraw them, which is amusing).
Anyway, repeat that a few times, and then you have a table that is full of chips, full of players on tilt (who are treating it as a freezeout or have limited rebuys in mind), and you will eventually get a big hand and double up. ...
This is precisely what I mean.
The elements of play after this point - such as taking advantage of those who don"t stop playing like it"s a rebuy even when they"re in the freezeout part - remain the same however you play the rebuy part.
Therefore the difference is the rebuy period and the best (as in most likely to get you a win) way to play them promotes bad play.
Ergo - rebuys are bad. QED (or more precisely QEF - but you"d probably have to look that up)
No, it promotes "different" play. Same as when you"re short-stacked.
and have to shove with pretty much ATC. You wouldn"t do that at the start of a deepstack FO, but you might towards the end as the blinds rocket and your stack plummets. Doesn"t mean it"s "bad" play.
QED, QEF..... GFY.
OMG, we agree again. This is getting bad. NHWPGTFLMFAOUYM!!!
Next thing, you"ll be folding KK preflop early doors!
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For all the poker purists bashing re-buys there"s one thing you"re forgetting. Once the re-buy period is over the freezeout period should give the advantage to "better" players because the stacks are deeper. Take the stars $3r for example after the hour long re-buy period, the starting level of the freezeout is 75/150 and the average stack is c.10,000. Even if you bust on the last hand of the re-buy you can double re-buy + add-on and have a 5k stack for a minimum M of 24. Not too shabby. Compare this to a $20 freezout (or indeed any gtd freezout on stars) where the avg stack at the end of the first hr is probably closer to 6,000. So now tell me which one requires more "skill" to win. Getting thru some of those huge fields in the stars re-buys is a massive task.
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For all the poker purists bashing re-buys there"s one thing you"re forgetting. Once the re-buy period is over the freezeout period should give the advantage to "better" players because the stacks are deeper. Take the stars $3r for example after the hour long re-buy period, the starting level of the freezeout is 75/150 and the average stack is c.10,000. Even if you bust on the last hand of the re-buy you can double re-buy + add-on and have a 5k stack for a minimum M of 24. Not too shabby. Compare this to a $20 freezout (or indeed any gtd freezout on stars) where the avg stack at the end of the first hr is probably closer to 6,000. So now tell me which one requires more "skill" to win. Getting thru some of those huge fields in the stars re-buys is a massive task.
Great post...
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For all the poker purists bashing re-buys there"s one thing you"re forgetting. Once the re-buy period is over the freezeout period should give the advantage to "better" players because the stacks are deeper. Take the stars $3r for example after the hour long re-buy period, the starting level of the freezeout is 75/150 and the average stack is c.10,000. Even if you bust on the last hand of the re-buy you can double re-buy + add-on and have a 5k stack for a minimum M of 24. Not too shabby. Compare this to a $20 freezout (or indeed any gtd freezout on stars) where the avg stack at the end of the first hr is probably closer to 6,000. So now tell me which one requires more "skill" to win. Getting thru some of those huge fields in the stars re-buys is a massive task.
Great post...
x2
i think people bashing rebuys are also paying rebuy buyins the same as their freezeout buyins and are blitzing big chunks of the bankroll in a total donk fest
Kin"s advice about playing rebuys with a buyin of a tenth of your freezeout buyin seems good advice
......tooo many "buys" in this post....
buy....i mean bye
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By the way.
Went by Aspers in Newcastle last night for their £20 re-buy .
I had no-rebuys and just an add on and managed to chop heads up. 8)
Obviously I am a complete donkey, cos only lucky fish win rebuys, but hey ho I"ll take the cash thanks. Now what can I buy. 8) 8) 8)
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