Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: Santino67 on August 14, 2012, 19:05:44 PM
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As you"ll see i just raised in EP with QQ then 2 tight players behind both shove. I"ve also just recently doubled up to 12k to get back into it...............
PokerStars Hand #84718967889: Tournament #612011332, $8.00+$0.80 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (200/400) - 2012/08/14 13:25:25 ET
Table "612011332 114" 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: andrezz_b (8719 in chips)
Seat 2: /7oKepp (2250 in chips)
Seat 3: bapsilva (9565 in chips)
Seat 4: papio86 (4661 in chips)
Seat 5: maal1904 (13604 in chips)
Seat 6: LUCKY7CLOVER (14144 in chips)
Seat 7: nutzho (16907 in chips)
Seat 8: SantinoAPAT (13452 in chips)
Seat 9: kuzla (8844 in chips)
andrezz_b: posts the ante 50
/7oKepp: posts the ante 50
bapsilva: posts the ante 50
papio86: posts the ante 50
maal1904: posts the ante 50
LUCKY7CLOVER: posts the ante 50
nutzho: posts the ante 50
SantinoAPAT: posts the ante 50
kuzla: posts the ante 50
bapsilva: posts small blind 200
papio86: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SantinoAPAT [ Qc Qh]
maal1904: folds
LUCKY7CLOVER: folds
nutzho: folds
SantinoAPAT: raises 588 to 988
kuzla: raises 7806 to 8794 and is all-in
andrezz_b: folds
/7oKepp has timed out
/7oKepp: folds
/7oKepp is sitting out
bapsilva: raises 721 to 9515 and is all-in
papio86: folds
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I fold in this spot.. you fold still have 20+ BB, against 2 all ins think at least one has AA/KK ..maybe call if it was HU.
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Stats for the tight players?
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Depends but call this in this comp, think jacks is close to a fold but prob not in this donkfest though
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Don"t think I can fold QQ in this tourney in this spot
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OK wait a minute while I think - oh yes - CALL (to be fair I would have shoved pre - buts thats me - see you in DTD) ;D ;D ;D
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Im calling here
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Stats for the tight players?
Don"t have any mate, just that there were a couple of aggro players at table but these 2 were pretty tight, though bapsilva lost half his stack not long before this with 2 pairs.
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Call & pray in this tourney.
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Call & pray in this tourney.
Anyone folding here needs to give up poker.
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I would definitely call, and given that it is Poker stars one or both will have AK , there will be one or the other and you will river a Q.
No charge for the info
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I fold in this spot.. you fold still have 20+ BB, against 2 all ins think at least one has AA/KK ..maybe call if it was HU.
I agree with this, I often find it hard to fold the ladies when there are two all ins, in a middle or late stage tourny,but in the Big 8.80 people arn"t going to mess around with A2 I don"t think.
it"s best to fold here. gl!
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I think the hand is too strong compared to your stack size to fold.
Only paranoia is going to make people assume one of them has AA or KK, even tight people are shoving in this spot with high Aces and mid to high pairs. You"re in good shape against almost all of their combined range and great shape against a fair proportion of it.
Having said that, it"s relative, I think you"re looking at being around and slightly less than 50% to win the hand - but at this stage with that stack size and the potential stack size you"ll have if the QQ holds I think you need to call if you"re serious about trying to get a final table or top 3 finish
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Insta-call.
I think some people are vastly overestimating the standard of players on Stars in a small buy-in big field tourney if they think one of them must have AA/KK or that they couldn"t have ace rag. Wouldn"t surprise me in the least if they turned over A-J suited and pocket fives, or worse!
Given the top heavy nature of the payout and the chance to treble your stack you may as well fold pre if you"re looking at folding here.
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Insta-call.
I think some people are vastly overestimating the standard of players on Stars in a small buy-in big field tourney if they think one of them must have AA/KK or that they couldn"t have ace rag. Wouldn"t surprise me in the least if they turned over A-J suited and pocket fives, or worse!
Given the top heavy nature of the payout and the chance to treble your stack you may as well fold pre if you"re looking at folding here.
http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/kuzla/
http://www.pocketfives.com/poker-scores/kuzla/
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That just shows one of the players who"s shoved is decent but even then he"s shoving over the top of a raise from the cutoff. The fact he"s a good player doesn"t mean he"s got aces or kings here. In fact i"d say it"s less likely.
And here"s the other person in the pot:
http://officialpokerrankings.com/pokerstars/bapsilva/poker/ratings/AB91A27F4E4F48CB888608631E1D9124.html?t=3
For every kuzla in these tourneys there are 4 or 5 bapsilvas!
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That just shows one of the players who"s shoved is decent but even then he"s shoving over the top of a raise from the cutoff. The fact he"s a good player doesn"t mean he"s got aces or kings here. In fact i"d say it"s less likely.
And here"s the other person in the pot:
http://officialpokerrankings.com/pokerstars/bapsilva/poker/ratings/AB91A27F4E4F48CB888608631E1D9124.html?t=3
For every kuzla in these tourneys there are 4 or 5 bapsilvas!
Grant hasn"t raised from the cut off, there has only been 3 folds on a table of 9...
shame Grant wasn"t using a hud, it would of been interesting to know what his raise % from mp and his overall pfr % whilst seated at the table with these guys... tbh imo to categorically say never fold in this spot would be foolish, a bit more info would be nice :) kuzla has shoved 22bb to win 5bb from the hi-jack with 4 to act behind, if we knew Grants stats it"d give everyone a better idea of what sort range kuzla might have, likewise bapsilva...
tough one Grant, from looking at kuzla"s stats he won, i hope it wasn"t to horrendous :)
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Great to see all the responses to this and it"s all part of the never ending learning of this magical game. I"m sure many of you will be surprised to know that I folded and left them to battle it out. Two reasons for my fold:
1/I believed I was in bad shape against one of them
2/ I have a decent enough stack and a good feel for this table, that I believe I can pick up chips elsewhere
Turns out it was a poor fold, I was gutted when I saw them flip over (Kuzla) AK v (Bapsilva) AQ. I"d have been in tremendous shape in this spot. I still felt like a bit of a chump afterwards, despite the fact that an ace landed on the river.
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At least u can admit to a bad fold then. Did you know who Kuzla was at the time? How would of that affected your decision if you could see that he crushes the micro/low stakes big field mtts?
I think for me, if i know hes a sicko then im calling even quicker.
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At least u can admit to a bad fold then. Did you know who Kuzla was at the time? How would of that affected your decision if you could see that he crushes the micro/low stakes big field mtts?
I think for me, if i know hes a sicko then im calling even quicker.
Probably true if I"d known more about both players but I"m not playing huge amounts and only joined Stars this season for the APAT league. I certainly didn"t get an impression of either of them being aggro on that table while I"d been there.
Just found this lol
http://officialpokerrankings.com/pokerstars/SantinoAPAT/poker/results/DF20B80A346C4869BA06CFA72A337F7D.html?t=2
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U have the third best hand in poker. Call
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That just shows one of the players who"s shoved is decent but even then he"s shoving over the top of a raise from the cutoff. The fact he"s a good player doesn"t mean he"s got aces or kings here. In fact i"d say it"s less likely.
And here"s the other person in the pot:
http://officialpokerrankings.com/pokerstars/bapsilva/poker/ratings/AB91A27F4E4F48CB888608631E1D9124.html?t=3
For every kuzla in these tourneys there are 4 or 5 bapsilvas!
Grant hasn"t raised from the cut off, there has only been 3 folds on a table of 9...
shame Grant wasn"t using a hud, it would of been interesting to know what his raise % from mp and his overall pfr % whilst seated at the table with these guys... tbh imo to categorically say never fold in this spot would be foolish, a bit more info would be nice :) kuzla has shoved 22bb to win 5bb from the hi-jack with 4 to act behind, if we knew Grants stats it"d give everyone a better idea of what sort range kuzla might have, likewise bapsilva...
tough one Grant, from looking at kuzla"s stats he won, i hope it wasn"t to horrendous :)
Fair enough, misread the positions, my apologies. It"s never really a case of never fold but in this spot i"d have to have a very good reason to and with the information given it"s a straightforward call for me.
Given the fact we now know kuzla to be a winning player and bapsilva to be awful do you call?
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Fair enough, misread the positions, my apologies. It"s never really a case of never fold but in this spot i"d have to have a very good reason to and with the information given it"s a straightforward call for me.
Given the fact we now know kuzla to be a winning player and bapsilva to be awful do you call?
yep i call :) because i"m not a nitty type, so kuzla"s range would maybe be wider than normal... the only time i"d contemplate a fold in this spot/buy in was if for whatever reason i"d hardly opened any hands and my hud stats were showing that i hardly ever folded to a 3bet and my opening raise % from this position was really low like 4 or 5% and i thought that bapsilva had some idea that he knows that kuzla knows that... [if u know what i mean :)]
1/I believed I was in bad shape against one of them
2/ I have a decent enough stack and a good feel for this table, that I believe I can pick up chips elsewhere
just on this part Grant, u had the 3 bigger stacks on your right, although not overly blessed with chips [or yourself] were they really playing that bad that u thought u"d get plenty of situations to get chips without a showdown? add in the shorter stacks to your left, in what ways did u think u could pick up chips?
with the shorter stacks all to your left when u opened did u have an idea pre-flop of who"d u call and what ranges u thought they might shove or re-raise on u? did u forget to factor in what u"d do if one jammed and some1 cold called the 3bet?..
would any1 ever think about limping in Grants situation?
a good read from Daryl Jace - http://www.tournamentpokeredge.com/analyzing-your-game-are-you-outplaying-the-table/
YOU SUCK, I SUCK, WE ALL SUCK!
reminds me of a similar thing Galfond/Gigabet did on striving to have no bias/set thoughts in your thinking...
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Fair enough, misread the positions, my apologies. It"s never really a case of never fold but in this spot i"d have to have a very good reason to and with the information given it"s a straightforward call for me.
Given the fact we now know kuzla to be a winning player and bapsilva to be awful do you call?
yep i call :) because i"m not a nitty type, so kuzla"s range would maybe be wider than normal... the only time i"d contemplate a fold in this spot/buy in was if for whatever reason i"d hardly opened any hands and my hud stats were showing that i hardly ever folded to a 3bet and my opening raise % from this position was really low like 4 or 5% and i thought that bapsilva had some idea that he knows that kuzla knows that... [if u know what i mean :)]
1/I believed I was in bad shape against one of them
2/ I have a decent enough stack and a good feel for this table, that I believe I can pick up chips elsewhere
just on this part Grant, u had the 3 bigger stacks on your right, although not overly blessed with chips [or yourself] were they really playing that bad that u thought u"d get plenty of situations to get chips without a showdown? add in the shorter stacks to your left, in what ways did u think u could pick up chips?
with the shorter stacks all to your left when u opened did u have an idea pre-flop of who"d u call and what ranges u thought they might shove or re-raise on u? did u forget to factor in what u"d do if one jammed and some1 cold called the 3bet?..
would any1 ever think about limping in Grants situation?
Cheers for the PM James, I"ll catch up with that in near future. I"ve actually been seeing more of the bigger stacks" hands at the table and comfortable I"m on their left. Nutzho & Luckyclover raising fairly regularly and calling raises with hands like A7, K/10 etc etc. Short stacks generally not getting involved other than shove or fold, 7okepp had a reasonable stack for a long time, lost a decent pot then appeared to have gone card dead at this point. Had this situation resulted in one shove and I"m HU then I"m surely calling, but after serious consideration I folded. FWIW I went on to cash with a fairly healthy stack then ironically lost 2 races in a row with middle PPs and a 3rd pair as short stack busted me out :D