Amateur Poker Association & Tour

Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: Charlie44 on September 06, 2013, 01:05:50 AM

Title: JM 3rd Septmber Hand 3 Ok to fold Jacks here ?
Post by: Charlie44 on September 06, 2013, 01:05:50 AM
I flatted on the button because because villain has stats of 9/6/NA albeit on just 35 hands. Assumed tight ABC player. Min raise flop ok ? Planned to fold to 4 bet. Ok to fold turn . Has he mostly got an ace here ?
PokerStars - $0.10 NL ZOOM - Holdem - 9 players


Hero (BTN): $18.51
SB: $36.99
BB: $5.12
UTG: $21.67
UTG+1: $13.15
MP: $5.28
MP+1: $14.85
LP: $36.03
CO: $12.15

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has Jc Js

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.85, 2 players) 5s 8c 2s
CO bets $0.50, Hero raises to $1.00, CO calls $0.50

Turn: ($2.85, 2 players) Ac
CO bets $1.80, fold

CO wins $2.72
Title: Re: JM 3rd Septmber Hand 3 Ok to fold Jacks here ?
Post by: deanp27 on September 06, 2013, 15:28:56 PM
pre is debateable but depend on style. I tend to play a tonne of hands OTB vs late opens so I can 3bet comfortably but flatting can also be fine (36 hands is small sample so be a bit careful putting too much stock into it).

Prefer calling flop (and I rarely/never min-raise anyway), now just fold - he is donking an ace after he called a raise on the flop and its going to be hard to continue without reads.
Title: Re: JM 3rd Septmber Hand 3 Ok to fold Jacks here ?
Post by: Sillbags on September 06, 2013, 15:43:24 PM
I like the flat pre in position. Don"t mind a 3 bet either though. I don"t like raising the flop, unless villain is a drooler who can"t fold top pair. By raising the turn you are saying "I have an over pair or a set"  basically repping your exact hand strength, which is not good and makes life easy for your opponent. By flatting the flop we can pot control and more importantly we can rep a hand like a flush draw, where we can induce hero calls from weaker hands when we bet river after the perceived flush draw missed. As played, I am def folding turn, as the ace doesn"t seem to scare him and is clearly not a good card for you.
Title: Re: JM 3rd Septmber Hand 3 Ok to fold Jacks here ?
Post by: TheSnapper on September 06, 2013, 17:07:13 PM

I flatted on the button because because villain has stats of 9/6/NA albeit on just 35 hands. Assumed tight ABC player. Min raise flop ok ? Planned to fold to 4 bet. Ok to fold turn . Has he mostly got an ace here ?
PokerStars - $0.10 NL ZOOM - Holdem - 9 players


Hero (BTN): $18.51
SB: $36.99
BB: $5.12
UTG: $21.67
UTG+1: $13.15
MP: $5.28
MP+1: $14.85
LP: $36.03
CO: $12.15

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has Jc Js

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.85, 2 players) 5s 8c 2s



To 3b or not, I would look at a positional pop up for villain...

(http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af253/7lb12oz/pfrpopup_zps40d32894.png)

best to right click / open in new tab, to view as a bigger image.

We can then see pfr for that position and estimate an opening range, we can also see how villain reacts to being 3b, if villain folds too much we bluff more, if villain calls too much, we value 3b wider. 

These stats require a decent sample size so as to hold any value.

In this spot v an unknown, I will flat or 3b to ~ $0.96 and fold to a 4b (size dependent )
Title: Re: JM 3rd Septmber Hand 3 Ok to fold Jacks here ?
Post by: Sillbags on September 06, 2013, 17:32:31 PM


I flatted on the button because because villain has stats of 9/6/NA albeit on just 35 hands. Assumed tight ABC player. Min raise flop ok ? Planned to fold to 4 bet. Ok to fold turn . Has he mostly got an ace here ?
PokerStars - $0.10 NL ZOOM - Holdem - 9 players


Hero (BTN): $18.51
SB: $36.99
BB: $5.12
UTG: $21.67
UTG+1: $13.15
MP: $5.28
MP+1: $14.85
LP: $36.03
CO: $12.15

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has Jc Js

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, fold, fold

Flop: ($0.85, 2 players) 5s 8c 2s



To 3b or not, I would look at a positional pop up for villain...

(http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af253/7lb12oz/pfrpopup_zps40d32894.png)

best to right click / open in new tab, to view as a bigger image.

We can then see pfr for that position and estimate an opening range, we can also see how villain reacts to being 3b, if villain folds too much we bluff more, if villain calls too much, we value 3b wider. 

These stats require a decent sample size so as to hold any value.

In this spot v an unknown, I will flat or 3b to ~ $0.96 and fold to a 4b (size dependent )


Fold to 3bet stat is a must have on the HUD imo, anything around 80% is normal, higher or lower you can adjust ranges as Brendan suggests
Title: Re: JM 3rd Septmber Hand 3 Ok to fold Jacks here ?
Post by: Charlie44 on September 06, 2013, 18:00:14 PM




To 3b or not, I would look at a positional pop up for villain...

best to right click / open in new tab, to view as a bigger image.

We can then see pfr for that position and estimate an opening range, we can also see how villain reacts to being 3b, if villain folds too much we bluff more, if villain calls too much, we value 3b wider. 

These stats require a decent sample size so as to hold any value.

In this spot v an unknown, I will flat or 3b to ~ $0.96 and fold to a 4b (size dependent )


This is like gold dust please keep it coming -  don"t assume I know anything !! ???

Is this hud a standard hud on HEM. I have PT. I have attempted to build a pop up but nowhere near as clear and useful as this.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: JM 3rd Septmber Hand 3 Ok to fold Jacks here ?
Post by: TheSnapper on September 06, 2013, 18:14:23 PM


This is like gold dust please keep it coming -  don"t assume I know anything !! ???

Is this hud a standard hud on HEM. I have PT. I have attempted to build a pop up but nowhere near as clear and useful as this.

Thanks again.


Its a custom pop up I use on HEM 1.

Title: Re: JM 3rd Septmber Hand 3 Ok to fold Jacks here ?
Post by: AAroddersAA on September 07, 2013, 10:14:24 AM
Folding JJ here is good. Don"t need to go through all the ranges here the ace obviously hits his range quite hard and his turn bet is strong. Without reads this is a standard fold.

Preflop is fine. I would only 3-bet JJ in this game with a good read that I am not turning it into a bluff.

On the flop what is our plan if we get 3-bet? I guess we can fold and we still get called by worse so think it is fine. What is our plan if another undercard comes? Bet/fold turn?

As played - Turn is a standard fold.
Title: Re: JM 3rd Septmber Hand 3 Ok to fold Jacks here ?
Post by: Charlie44 on September 07, 2013, 13:26:17 PM



On the flop what is our plan if we get 3-bet? I guess we can fold and we still get called by worse so think it is fine. What is our plan if another undercard comes? Bet/fold turn?




Plan is to raise/ fold. The min raise was to intended to try and get him to slow him down him based on my read as ABC player. Once called I plan to try and get to cheap showdown. So I"m probably checking back the turn with any card (except a Jack !).
Title: Re: JM 3rd Septmber Hand 3 Ok to fold Jacks here ?
Post by: AAroddersAA on September 07, 2013, 13:42:14 PM




On the flop what is our plan if we get 3-bet? I guess we can fold and we still get called by worse so think it is fine. What is our plan if another undercard comes? Bet/fold turn?




Plan is to raise/ fold. The min raise was to intended to try and get him to slow him down him based on my read as ABC player. Once called I plan to try and get to cheap showdown. So I"m probably checking back the turn with any card (except a Jack !).

Nah, we have position, we should use it. Bet a safe turn imo, fold to a raise as you are almost never getting exploited. We can probably only get one more street of value and the turn is better than the river. I think the best line to do this is bet the turn and reassess on the river. Checking back allows us to call on the river I know but betting the turn just seems a better line here. Happy to be corrected of course.