Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mikeyboy9361 on June 24, 2008, 09:46:32 AM
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Right I will set the scene, I have been playing Poker now for about 2 years, I started because I was going on Holiday to Vegas, and well if you"re going to Vegas you have to play Poker don"t you?
So I have read books, subscribe to mags, and like most APAT members ( well the ones on this forum) take the game fairly seriously and am always trying to improve my game. I must be doing something right as I haven"t had to re load any of my poker accounts for about 12 months, and am even in profit in all APAT on line and live tournaments. I play APAT tourneys and some sit and gos but mainly play cash, 25c/50c mainly, and as I have said am a winning player, all be it in a small way.
So after a tough day at work, and umpiring an Under 18 cricket match last night, I came in and decided to boot up the lap top for my fix, cos lets face it we are addicted!
So I select a 6 handed cash table, deposit my standard amount, and proceed to play like Kermit the Frog! How does this happen, you sit down, you think you are in a normal frame of mind, and before you know it you are donating your stack to any body with a half decent hand. It all started with an outrageous bluff/steal on the button, which in my wisdom continued all the way to the river. As I re loaded I made a mental note to "Get my Head on" and play properly only to find myself limping out of position, chasing long shot flushes, and gut shot straights! What is going on? As I re load again all the players at the table can actually see me sprouting fins, and can"t wait for me to enter yet another pot! Then finally in the big blind I pick up aces, and think this is my chance to get some of my cash back, they all fold round to me, aaaaaah.
I hang on for a few more minutes, and eventually something sinks in to my brain and forces me to log off, I know I should have done this an hour ago, I was actually saying to myself " Get out of here" but didn"t do it.
So after donating about 20% of my bank roll in just over an hour, I go to bed, thinking "How did that happen?", "Why did I play like Kermit?" "Why did everything you know just fly out of the window?"
This was so unlike me, I usually build my bank roll slowly, create a table image and then try and get aggressive.
Anybody got any answers, has this happened to any one else?
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Every time I sit at a cash table ::)
To your credit at least you realised what was going on before you got too stuck and felt compelled to chase those loses.
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Been there, done that, got the t-shirt :)
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I"m probably going to get shot down here, but I have this theory about no-limit cash games. This is that they just aren"t worth it. My experience probably isn"t as deep as many of the players here, but I"ve found that in a good session of no-limit cash, however many hours that may be, to double your inital buy-in is a major sucess. However, if you sit down and just don"t click into the game, or go on a bad run, or simply find yourself getting outplayed, it"s much easier to lose 3 or 4 buy-ins than it is to get that successful double through. With the speed and easy access of online cash games I think it"s probably more likely that you will lose 20% of your bankroll, as Mikey stated, than add 5% to it.
For some reason I"ve started playing limit cash games online, after having very little luck with the no-limit cash games in months before, and I find that the risk to reward ratio is much better. Yes, when you hit a monster and your opponent has second nuts you won"t get to double your money, but patient, controlled play will reap great rewards because of the volume of hands we see online, without the imminent risk of losing the lot on one mistake.
Having said that, I have still been affording myself one session of no-limit each week with a % of my weeks winnings.
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I have never been a big profitable cash game player. I admit I"m a tourny donk and anytime I give cash games online a punt I do EXACTLY what Mikey Boy and Clynd describe- try and outplay the table.
I play sit and go"s to try and supplement my bankroll. Boring but profitable and if u tilt off, you onlu tilt off the buy in.
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same as george, although I have recently "found" Ohama 8"s or better cash tables......wonderful!
;D
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I have never been a big profitable cash game player. I admit I"m a tourny donk and anytime I give cash games online a punt I do EXACTLY what Mikey Boy and Clynd describe- try and outplay the table.
I play sit and go"s to try and supplement my bankroll. Boring but profitable and if u tilt off, you onlu tilt off the buy in
Ditto. Usually play between 20 and 30 $60 STTs per day over about five hours, and usually come in around $300 up (or $300 down).
Occasionally I have a bash at $1/$2 cash games, and can easily lose 2 or 3 $200 buy-ins in less than half the time!!
I used to think cash was the way to go, but have now settled into a steady groove playing turbo STTs on Stars...... far more profitable and far more reliable. I only seem to play cash when I"m on tilt or bored - clearly not the best recipe for success.
Love of the game is always in MTTs though.
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So last night, I decide to try some $10 sit and go action, first one went out on the bubble, nothing unusual happened. In the second one I decide to play a bit more conservatively, and am going quite nicely when I pick up aces, chip leader raises to 3 x bb, and I re raise, he pushes all in with KJ os.... flop J K K, and to add insult to injury the turn is another K.
So back to the cash tables, again doing quite well up 50%, get aces again, happy to see I am up against 10"s ( another all in ) , yep 10 on the flop. I am starting to dread getting Aces!
So a self imposed rest from the tables is now in place.
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self imposed rest? why? you are doing nothing wrong!! If you can continually get your chips and called when you have AA, you will win a lot more than you lose in the long run.
It doesn"t sound like you"re doing much wrong - you are just on a cold run. If you take a month out now, next time you sit down you may still be on the cold run. your next hand will be your next hand - whether it is 5 minutes, 5 days, or 5 months away. Your cold run will warm up at some point - just gotta play through it.
If you were playing bad, then yes a break is absolutely the right thing to do.... but getting your chips in with AA preflop is never a bad thing to be doing!!
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I favour cash to tournaments. I can win more on a regular basis (more per hour effectively) playing cash than playing tournaments.
Of course a BIG tournament win can make a big difference, but unless you"re Rupinder or James Eck (and obviously a lot of other good tourney players on here), then how often are you actually going to make a big win in a tourney - and a win that covers all the times you didn"t win big or failed to cash at all in all the other tournaments?
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I favour cash to tournaments. I can win more on a regular basis (more per hour effectively) playing cash than playing tournaments.
Of course a BIG tournament win can make a big difference, but unless you"re Rupinder or James Eck (and obviously a lot of other good tourney players on here), then how often are you actually going to make a big win in a tourney - and a win that covers all the times you didn"t win big or failed to cash at all in all the other tournaments?
Agree with you that the big tourney wins are few and far between..... but tourneys are my bread and butter. .... single table sit and goes that is. I tend to make steadier bankroll growth multi-tabling STTs as opposed to playing cash. My cash bankroll graph would give you vertigo with the steep climbs and drops. Tourney play isn"t just about the 200+ seat affair which you might play for 7 hours before going out with nuthin.....
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Thanks for the support, I know I was playing well enough, but the night before was a disaster. I did actually have a night off last night, and may stay clear tonight, but will be back in the saddle by the weekend!
Re cash v tourneys, I find I make most of my money in cash games, and actually play tourneys as bit of light relief, but would say I cash in STSG about 25% of the time.
The best torneys for me are the APAT live events, they are a brilliant structure, and you can play some real poker. ( £5 in the post Des? )
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self imposed rest? why? you are doing nothing wrong!! If you can continually get your chips and called when you have AA, you will win a lot more than you lose in the long run.
And here is the crux of a good poker player"s problem, with the emphasis on the part of the above phrase "long term".
I believe most of us are of this school of thought i.e. that skill will overcome luck in the long term. Now statistcially speaking this should be true.
HOWEVER, just how long is the "long term"? Am I not right in saying that this statistical assumption could run to infinity, or longer than your bankroll can last, or your heart beats? :o :o :o
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I favour cash to tournaments. I can win more on a regular basis (more per hour effectively) playing cash than playing tournaments.
Of course a BIG tournament win can make a big difference, but unless you"re Rupinder or James Eck (and obviously a lot of other good tourney players on here), then how often are you actually going to make a big win in a tourney - and a win that covers all the times you didn"t win big or failed to cash at all in all the other tournaments?
Agree with you that the big tourney wins are few and far between..... but tourneys are my bread and butter. .... single table sit and goes that is. I tend to make steadier bankroll growth multi-tabling STTs as opposed to playing cash. My cash bankroll graph would give you vertigo with the steep climbs and drops. Tourney play isn"t just about the 200+ seat affair which you might play for 7 hours before going out with nuthin.....
OK, it"s a semantic thing here then. When people say "tournaments" I usually think they"re referring to MTTs, rather than STTs.
STTs are a different beast altogether from both cash and MTTs.
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self imposed rest? why? you are doing nothing wrong!! If you can continually get your chips and called when you have AA, you will win a lot more than you lose in the long run.
And here is the crux of a good poker player"s problem, with the emphasis on the part of the above phrase "long term".
I believe most of us are of this school of thought i.e. that skill will overcome luck in the long term. Now statistcially speaking this should be true.
HOWEVER, just how long is the "long term"? Am I not right in saying that this statistical assumption could run to infinity, or longer than your bankroll can last, or your heart beats? :o :o :o
I came within $100 of packing it in when my long run lasted for 7 months :"(
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self imposed rest? why? you are doing nothing wrong!! If you can continually get your chips and called when you have AA, you will win a lot more than you lose in the long run.
And here is the crux of a good poker player"s problem, with the emphasis on the part of the above phrase "long term".
I believe most of us are of this school of thought i.e. that skill will overcome luck in the long term. Now statistcially speaking this should be true.
HOWEVER, just how long is the "long term"? Am I not right in saying that this statistical assumption could run to infinity, or longer than your bankroll can last, or your heart beats? :o :o :o
I came within $100 of packing it in when my long run lasted for 7 months :"(
There"s your answer Gordon - long term = 8+ months!! ;D
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There"s your answer Gordon - long term = 8+ months!! ;D
Ok then if 8+ months is the answer, although tbh my question was kinda retorical in that there is no correct answer. How many of you have the bankroll, or the bankroll management to go on an extended 8+month bad run? :-\
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There"s your answer Gordon - long term = 8+ months!! ;D
Ok then if 8+ months is the answer, although tbh my question was kinda retorical in that there is no correct answer. How many of you have the bankroll, or the bankroll management to go on an extended 8+month bad run? :-\
Not many imo..
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There"s your answer Gordon - long term = 8+ months!! ;D
Ok then if 8+ months is the answer, although tbh my question was kinda retorical in that there is no correct answer. How many of you have the bankroll, or the bankroll management to go on an extended 8+month bad run? :-\
more like 8 days for me!!