Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: antthecat on March 19, 2009, 08:07:09 AM
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situation: blinds 300/600, my stack 8000
i was on the bb and was dealt ad qs, the cutoff shoved for 6000 and the small blind shoved for 2500. i have only played a few hands as i was moved to this table and had no opinion but i thought they were both tight.
what would you do, call or fold???????
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you really need to ask that one??
ask yourself if the cutoff is going to shove with anything that isn"t ahead of AQo, and then would the SB shove behind with anything that AQo is beating? Against just one of them it"s a marginal call - against two it"s a "fold so fast you break your mouse in the process" type fold!!
Do a Google search on the Gap Concept, and have a read....
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No Reads, Defo fold!
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Reads or not, still a fold imo. Would rather play something like 78s than AQ in this position.
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Questions:
When do the blinds go up - what is the blind structure?
How many players left and how many prizes?
What is your attitude to limping to prizes/winning top prizes?
Why did you think they were both tight - with no information?
I see plenty of people pushing in that position with weaker aces ... and the SB is very short stacked ...
Pretty marginal for me ...
L
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the cut off was an old boy and the sb was a girl who i played with(steady) a few times before and thats where i got my judgement.
i did fold but as it was the final table bubble everyone was watching i showed the aq and said i give respect(i thought it was the right fold at the time) but the other spectators said i was a (excuse this) a f****** donkey, a stupid (im not going to write this word as it is discraceful) and a lot more expletatives,
i thought it was the right fold but i was tilted by what everyone called me.
by the way i would have won as i was up against jacks and sevens and a queen came on the flop but i was not to know this.
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... I don"t think you should show your AQ ...
However if it is the final table bubble you have to fold and hopefully let the cut off kill the SB.
L
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... I don"t think you should show your AQ ...
However if it is the final table bubble you have to fold and hopefully let the cut off kill the SB.
L
this
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probably fold on the bubble but depending upon the situation i have also been known to snap this off as CO range could be wide. The extra chips he has could be insurance in case SB has you beat.
of course you can just fold and just keep shoving yourself, which is fine.
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Easy call 100% of the time.
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Easy call 100% of the time.
This.
Your crushing the button"s range. Even if you lose to the short stack- as long as your beat the button you"ll make money anyway.
Plus the shortstack"s range is super wide too.
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Call - but hey thats just me ;D
note: I did call with AQ last night in the home game and was battered by 45o ;D
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Call always.
What"s the significance of it being a final table bubble? Were all final table places being paid? How important to you was the first rung of the pay ladder? If we"re playing for the win I"d have shoved here. You"ve only got 12 big blinds left, you need chips if you want to win. It"s 5,400 to win just over 9,000. The cut-off and the SB are both short so you"re well ahead of their range. Gerrit it in man and good luck to thee...that"s what I always say.
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as per george explanation.
snap call
Thanks
Mr Snappy
Snap street
Snapland
SN1 1AP
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fold.... are u having a laugh?! you only have to beat the origional raiser to make a profit on the hand, and his range is high
folding is way way too tight
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folding is way way too tight
Thats me uber-rock, worth remembering that, only ever play premium hands.
As far as I am concerned, and I understand the comments above about going for the win but why gamble with this marginal hand up against 2 allins when your on the bubble, lose and your down to just 2.5BB putting yourself under pressure, better to fold and have more equity when your first into the pot with 10BB. Good fold imo, bad show.
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yes its 2 all ins, but the difference here is the 2nd all in is mega short. If it was an all-in over the top of the original all-in then i think you might see some different responses, including my own. You have to ask yourself what if the 2nd all-in had folded, what would u do then.... u would insta call (or at least you should!) as i said in the previous post and george has also said you only have to beat the original raiser to make a profit on the hand, so really what the 2nd all-in has done is irrelevent.
mind you i suppose it depends on your aim... to ladder or to win the tournament.
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good points.
I think my mind set here is to make the money and then win the tournament rather than risk not making the money.
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i was concerned with the button who i thought had ak. i would have folded if it was a heads up situation and why would i risk 3/4 of my stack with a hand that was behind from the start and only needed to improve, i understand why i need to gamble to win tournaments (the money did not concern me) but if i was the first to shove with aq then that is ok but calling an all in is in my opinion a very loose call. if you keep going in behind then you will lose money in the long run(and i would not have earnt a sklansky dollar) and aq is called the doyle brunson for one reason, he hardly plays this hand as he calls it the biggest trouble hand and im not argueing with the legend.
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i was concerned with the button who i thought had ak. i would have folded if it was a heads up situation and why would i risk 3/4 of my stack with a hand that was behind from the start and only needed to improve, i understand why i need to gamble to win tournaments (the money did not concern me) but if i was the first to shove with aq then that is ok but calling an all in is in my opinion a very loose call. if you keep going in behind then you will lose money in the long run(and i would not have earnt a sklansky dollar) and aq is called the doyle brunson for one reason, he hardly plays this hand as he calls it the biggest trouble hand and im not argueing with the legend.
please ignore these idiots and wise up to the modern game!!!!
its a snapper every single time.
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Is it just this situation that is a snap call?
would it be a snap call if the button had shoved for say 5K?
what if all 3 stack sizes were the same, say 8K each. Would it be a snap call then?
I ask this because, whilst AQo may be ahead of each individual players range, and is probably still ahead three way. Is it possibly a favorite to lose here?
Is the "easy call" based on the pushing / calling ranges relative to the stacks?
I thought this was an easy fold, but a lot of players, whose opinions I really respect say easy call. My comment was made more out of instinct rather than knowledge or experience, so I"m more than prepared to be educated on this.
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i was concerned with the button who i thought had ak. i would have folded if it was a heads up situation and why would i risk 3/4 of my stack with a hand that was behind from the start and only needed to improve, i understand why i need to gamble to win tournaments (the money did not concern me) but if i was the first to shove with aq then that is ok but calling an all in is in my opinion a very loose call. if you keep going in behind then you will lose money in the long run(and i would not have earnt a sklansky dollar) and aq is called the doyle brunson for one reason, he hardly plays this hand as he calls it the biggest trouble hand and im not argueing with the legend.
i think what doyle is getting at, that post flop play, especially when out of position if you hit your ace u never really know where you are. I dont think that means he never plays aq. You say you put him on AK....on what basis? when your new to a table and a short stack shoves, you can only put him on a range, which is huge! (maybe you put him on ak for an excuse to get rid of the hand)
if your folding aq on the big blind to a shortstack shove let me know where your sat in cardiff! :D
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i wont be at cardiff my friend. the reason i put the old man on ak is that the first hand i seen he shoved with ak(he showed) so i had to guess i was behind. i know that preflop i could have been so far ahead or so far behind, all i was annoyed about the flack for folding the aq by the others and not bursting the bubble and i thought it was the right fold at the time, i can see that yes its correct to call but it can be correct to fold. next time ill see where the land lies and hope that im not too far behind.
thank you for your opinion, it has been very welcome
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people abusing you is obviously uncalled for and it isnt like you laid down aces! you get it alot in such tournaments though a lot of people that think they know everything, yet dont have a clue!
just remember that because a guy shows ak once, doesnt mean he has it again ( a lot of people would show to give you an impression they only shove with premium, which then enables them to shove light)
i wouldnt let the needling get to you.... and congrats on the cash
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gotta remember AK is still only ace high
take this i psoted a month or so ago
http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?topic=2898.0
especially in hand 1 where i slated the BB"s raise with AK with a raise and all in behind him
its all about the gap concept
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gotta remember AK is still only ace high
take this i psoted a month or so ago
http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?topic=2898.0
especially in hand 1 where i slated the BB"s raise with AK with a raise and all in behind him
its all about the gap concept
Salt n Pepa can explain this better than i ever could,
So if its all about the gap you must agree its a snapper as you yourself advocate shoving 25 off first to act!
Salt: Yo, I don"t think we should talk about this
Pepa: Come on, why not?
Salt: People might misunderstand what we"re tryin" to say, you know?
Pepa: No, but that"s a part of life
Lets talk about gap baby
its all about 2 n 3
lets talk about all the good cards and the bad cards that maybe
lets talk about gap
i might shove 2 n 3
i might shove Ace n Queen
lets talk about gap
lolz work in progress feel free to add.
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If there was a right and wrong, poker wouldn"t be the game I hate ;D
Odds/gaps/squeeze/gut feel/c bet/3 bet/**** bet/oh shiite bet/value (and what the feck is that)/"he"s at it"/gotta make a stand/"I love my hand"
make it the craic that it is -- see you all in Cardiff for my brand of this wonderful game.... (which by the way is tight passive)
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i had a very similar situation last night, button shoves(3/4 of my stack), small blind reshoves(only a third of my stack) and i snap call with aq off on the bb, walked straight into aces and kings, did not improve and could not recover in the sng down the pub. blooming snap call, should have been folded but have been playing opponents for a while and they were both loose and both could have shoved with two face cards or a dry ace.
fold 1 call 0
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i had a very similar situation last night, button shoves(3/4 of my stack), small blind reshoves(only a third of my stack) and i snap call with aq off on the bb, walked straight into aces and kings, did not improve and could not recover in the sng down the pub. blooming snap call, should have been folded but have been playing opponents for a while and they were both loose and both could have shoved with two face cards or a dry ace.
fold 1 call 0
I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago
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i had a very similar situation last night, button shoves(3/4 of my stack), small blind reshoves(only a third of my stack) and i snap call with aq off on the bb, walked straight into aces and kings, did not improve and could not recover in the sng down the pub. blooming snap call, should have been folded but have been playing opponents for a while and they were both loose and both could have shoved with two face cards or a dry ace.
fold 1 call 0
thats just a cooler surely!!!!
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Call - but hey thats just me ;D
note: I did call with AQ last night in the home game and was battered by 45o ;D
Let it go!!....Let it go!!!!
::)
;)
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i only posted the last result as just how unlucky i was. im sure either call or fold seems to have its merits