Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: AMRN on May 01, 2009, 12:21:28 PM
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Full Tilt Poker Game #11965087774: Table Reward (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 6:52:45 ET - 2009/05/01
Seat 1: ibolabola ($54.25)
Seat 2: harrierz ($52.65)
Seat 3: Skyw4lker ($50)
Seat 4: WhiteRabbit18 ($27.65)
Seat 5: iruxelc ($10)
Seat 6: Lowkick ($128.60), is sitting out
WhiteRabbit18 posts the small blind of $0.25
iruxelc posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to harrierz qh qd
ibolabola folds
harrierz raises to $1.75
Skyw4lker has 15 seconds left to act
Skyw4lker calls $1.75
WhiteRabbit18 folds
iruxelc folds
iruxelc adds $0.50
*** FLOP *** 9h 7s jd
harrierz bets $3.50
Skyw4lker has 15 seconds left to act
Skyw4lker calls $3.50
*** TURN *** 9h 7s jd ts
harrierz bets $8
Skyw4lker has 15 seconds left to act
Skyw4lker raises to $44.75, and is all in
harrierz has 15 seconds left to act
harrierz calls $36.75
Skyw4lker shows 7c 7d
harrierz shows Qh Qd
*** RIVER *** 9h 7s jd ts 4s
Skyw4lker shows three of a kind, Sevens
harrierz shows a pair of Queens
Skyw4lker wins the pot ($97.75) with three of a kind, Sevens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $100.75 | Rake $3
Board: [9h 7s jd ts 4s]
Seat 1: ibolabola didn"t bet (folded)
Seat 2: harrierz showed qh qd and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 3: Skyw4lker (button) showed 7c 7d and won ($97.75) with three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 4: WhiteRabbit18 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: iruxelc (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Lowkick is sitting out
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Preflop : open raised with premium hand
Post Flop : Lead out to protect overpair hand
Turn : didn"t much like 4 to a straight on board, but had overpair and open ended draw
Pot sizing 0.75 (blinds) + 3.50 (preflop) + 7.00 (flop) + 8 (my turn lead) = 19.25 + his raise to 44.75..... therefore I have to call 36.75 to win 27.25
Thoughts on other player - in past 50 hands, he had twice flat called every street all the way to the river whilst holding the nuts, and then made min-raise to a river bet. When he over-shoved the turn here, I couldn"t put him on the nuts. Figured I was ahead of any Jx hands or a bluff, and if he had two pair, a set, or AA/KK then I had outs.
Did I make a poor call, or was this just a cooler?
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I"m no good at 6 max cash, but would say that if it was a tourney, its an easy fold.
Possibly a good call in this spot as the scare card turn has prompted a shove from oppo so you are beating a few shoves and not too far behind hands that are beating you, though I haven"t done any maths.
I would probably do a buy in there, but thats not really saying much :(
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cooler mate...... those sets are a b876strd.. plus shove looks like he is buying the pot
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probably a fold, even though you have some straight outs (and maybe top set outs) i don"t think you are priced to call. Most players don"t have AJ here and certainly not worse, as this is all you beat.
However to get more credible answers, don"t post the result as it affects responses - post the action up to the guy shoving on you or maybe the turn card. Stats on the guy would also be helpful if you use tracking software.
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To risk almost a full BuyIn on that scary a board with only an overpair ... hmmm. There are so many hands in his range here that have you beat (a wide variety of trips and two-pair hands) and although it IS a bit of a cooler given that you have had the best hand PF, to such a strong bet on the turn, it"s a fold for me too I"m afraid. But then, I"m a nit :)
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Cooler. You"re not deep enough to fold there. Call every day of the week.
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Cooler. You"re not deep enough to fold there. Call every day of the week.
Although he"s put over a third of his stack in already, if he folds he still has 73BBs left.
When are you coming to DTD?
How can you fold there? If you"re folding there, then fold it pre.
Every weekend if you"re calling every time!
With the str8 draw it IS somewhat appealing to call to hit one of your 10 outs (four 8s, four Ks and two Qs) but I still don"t think it"s the correct play. If it is, as part of the learning process, I would love to be shown why.
Question: You have a good read on this player and you put him on trips. Do you still call ... ?
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im calling all day too tbh, it was obv a scared raise to raise so much...he has tried to play he set decepetively and its all gone wrong on the turn, he didnt want a call in that spot. maybe in a tournament i fold but not in a cash game.
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Cooler. You"re not deep enough to fold there. Call every day of the week.
Although he"s put over a third of his stack in already, if he folds he still has 73BBs left.
Which isn"t a lot.
When are you coming to DTD?
How can you fold there? If you"re folding there, then fold it pre.
Every weekend if you"re calling every time!
...and I want you there every weekend if you"re folding in that spot!!
With the str8 draw it IS somewhat appealing to call to hit one of your 10 outs (four 8 s, four Ks and two Qs) but I still don"t think it"s the correct play. If it is, as part of the learning process, I would love to be shown why.
Question: You have a good read on this player and you put him on trips. Do you still call ... ?
That"s the issue. You can"t put him on exactly a set here. The range of hands he could have here dictates the call. Steve didn"t add any notes to say "only puts his chips in with a set or made hand" - so we can"t assume he just has a set.
We"re beating a lot of his range, and are live to everything else (except the made straight where we can only chop). If he turned his cards over so we can see his set, then yes we can fold. But without any more information it"s a snap call.
Here"s the hand I said I was going to post - tell me what you do here.
AA on the button (you have 100BB). You"ve been constantly raising (VP$IP 30, PFR 25), with impunity for the majority of the time.
The player in the cut-off is fairly tight pre, but plays quite a few flops if he can get in cheap, c-bets a lot, but has only gone to showdown with a decent hand. You"ve made him fold on a lot of flops with re-raises. He has about 85BBs.
It"s folded to the cut-off, who raises to $2.
You re-raise to $7. The blinds fold, and the cut-off calls.
Flop is 8s qc 9d
Cut-off moves all-in...
:o ??? :-[ :"(
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:o ??? :-[ :"(
I"m guessing from smileys;
you were shocked initially, you couldn"t work it out so made the call, which was a bad one, and you didn"t improve
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:o ??? :-[ :"(
I"m guessing from smileys;
you were shocked initially, you couldn"t work it out so made the call, which was a bad one, and you didn"t improve
You guess wrong. But I"ll wait for more answers before the reveal, otherwise it"s no fun.
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Is this 25/50?
Depends on the table and player involved I guess. Is this player a donk like a lot of the players at this level?
If I think he will make this play with top pair i"m obviously calling, that will be about 75% of the time depending on situation.
In saying this, if im ahead I"ll expect an outdraw as he makes two pair on the river. :D
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Can you really call off your entire stack? You have the best starting hand in the game, and you have been pushing the guy around, so I put him on AQ and he is trying to make a point when holding a good hand in case you call him (he is tight). So you call and scoop the lot! :D Well played sir!
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It is .25/.50.
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Can you really call off your entire stack?
No you can"t IMO!
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NOBBLLLLEEEEEEE
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havent bothered to read other peoples reply, (some dont know what they are talking about anyway....lol)
The turn was such a bad card for you, but i would of bet and folded to his shove....in hindsight the turn should of saved your stack, because at the end of the day you just had one pair and the openened draw just depends on weather you want to gamble (10 outs with 1 card to come is about 20% chance of hitting, and thats if he hasnt got a two pair flush draw combo)
....the other player actually played the hand bad, by slow playing such a wet flop.....and you say that you had reads on this guy, but players mix up there play all the time.
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my thoughts - check timing on flop !! imo a lot of players at this level especially pause when they connect well and call quick when they have a draw or some part of the flop etc etc...so alarms should be ringing after the delay and the turn all in confirms our suspicions..fold and be patient...
as said already i"d probably not reveal result till there a few replies,but i"ve answered how i would view it if i were in your seat....
the pause when bet into imo at this sort of level , is a short dwell if they have some experience stretching longer as here with a inexperienced sort when they hit something nice but are unsure how to proceed.. you"ll be surprised by how many do it....
harrierz bets $3.50
Skyw4lker has 15 seconds left to act
Skyw4lker calls $3.50
*** TURN ***
harrierz bets $8
Skyw4lker has 15 seconds left to act
Skyw4lker raises to $44.75, and is all in
oh bugger it while its on my mind - i haven"t pokerstoved it but roughly against all combos of sets and 2 pairs you"d need around 3.3 3.4 to 1 to call his all in to even be near +ev , in this spot your around 1.7 to 1 so that equates to 36 37% equity ...
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If you want serious non results orientated replies post the hand in stages imo.
Not really looked at it too much but if Kin is getting them in then I can"t see me folding.
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OP - His range when he flats the flop is obviously huge and that turn card connects with a large portion of it. I like the fact that you have led this turn as it does allow you to find out where you are. His answer says you are beat and I see no reason not to believe him. There are much better spots than this to get your money in and if this is a bluff then good luck to him as he"s going to need it.
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Here"s the hand I said I was going to post - tell me what you do here.
AA on the button (you have 100BB). You"ve been constantly raising (VP$IP 30, PFR 25), with impunity for the majority of the time.
The player in the cut-off is fairly tight pre, but plays quite a few flops if he can get in cheap, c-bets a lot, but has only gone to showdown with a decent hand. You"ve made him fold on a lot of flops with re-raises. He has about 85BBs.
It"s folded to the cut-off, who raises to $2.
You re-raise to $7. The blinds fold, and the cut-off calls.
Flop is 8s qc 9d
Cut-off moves all-in...
:o ??? :-[ :"(
This situation is completely different to the OP - here villain has donk-bet shoved into a pre-flop reraise which imo is much weaker than the line in OP. Plus its against a player you have history with which increases the likelyhood this is a bluff/semi-bluff. It"s possible you"re beat but given the history and the donk-lead-shove it seems much more likely to be something like a pair and a draw or even just a pair or just a draw. Have to call here IMO
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1) When posting hands dont post result until later, it does skew nature of peoples responses
2) If you use PT, quote his and your stats
FWIW, on this hand, at the point he pushes I dont expect many bluffs. Granted his MO maybe that of a calling station, the raise does look to me like a) someone who is shutting the pot down to curtail any draws - here he often has sets or 2pr b) hes hit his draw and is hoping an overpair, set or tptk pays him off. c) given his noted passive nature would he flat call AAKK preflop? The latter two are least likely simply due to the fact his holdings would only represent a very small portion of his prf callng range
I disagree with Dans commenst that you are not deep enough to fold. The price you are being given requires you to be right quite a large portion of the time. In this spot I just dont see that many hands that we are ahead of here or certainly not enough to justify stacking off