Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: nyerun on December 05, 2009, 17:20:01 PM
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Last night was playing a social club FO with 11 players, blinds still just 50/100 and starting stacks are 5000, im on about 6500 (10 left)
In sb look down at KK, 5 handed in sb, fold, call, fold behind, i raise to 400, BB calls, and caller folds
Flop comes down as 346, 2 clubs. At this point in the game im thinking that im quite happy to take this pot down so bet out 1000
BB then pushes all in for 2,800 more
What should my play be in this position?
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Get it in all day evry day. He has a lot of draws and worse overpairs in his range. Im guessing u lost tho, these posts dnt tend to appear if u shove, he has 77 andu hold ;)
Meh, gg wp - get it in
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guessing this a thinly disguised bad beat story in the making. ;)
Of course you have to call the extra 2800 every time.
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no its just i was with Gary and he reckoned he could have folded! will post the hand later!
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All in every time - but thats just me
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I was, but put this on here because Gary Philips said to me that he could possibly lay it down. In the end the guy had 5h 7h, so i was virtually dead and buried, but i couldnt understand where i could possibly fold here either?
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no problem -- move on nothing to see here -- to my small brain anyway
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I was, but put this on here because Gary Philips said to me that he could possibly lay it down. In the end the guy had 5h 7h, so i was virtually dead and buried, but i couldnt understand where i could possibly fold here either?
You couldn"t!
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only if you"d sneaked a peek at his holding. at which point you would have folded anyway, as you would not want to cheat........................Oh and you would of course have been dead in the water. Just kidding :D
BTW Aneurin, does he regularly play babies against raises? There are a couple at my school that are renowned for it, still it would be hard to lay down as they could be using your knowledge against you. Hope i haven"t confused the issue, but something else to consider? ;)
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never played the player before in my life!
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-Bet less on the flop, somewhere around 600-700 is enough
- Call now
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poker is so much easier in position with reads :)
ok oop against a random on a co-ordinated flop [2 suited] if we cbet our over pair what will happen and what would i be thinking.
[flop :3d: 4c 6c]
1. if we cbet how often will villain fold on this particular flop..mostly he will fold all hands we are beating,is that good with KK oop?
2. how many worse hands call.
3. how many better hands fold to our bet,not likely here :)
4. how likely will villain raise our continuation bet, and what are the consequences of that..
well mostly with this texture flop, your bet sizing pre and post, the only action you will get back is sets,2 pairs,straights,over pairs and strong draws [A5cc A3cc A2cc AQcc 78cc 35cc] and very seldom massive bluffs re-raising , top pairs just call [not hugely likely on 6 high flop] and with no reads you cannot tell between the draws and made hands that are beating you.
So i prefer to take a check call line mostly [no reads,these type of texture flops] and try to get to showdown cheaply if i can [thats if i dont improve on 4th or 5th street :)]...Your playing live so you"ll have more feel for the player/situation if villain gets all aggressive on the flop and turn which helps.We still and met get more value imo with checking here whilst trying to keep a bit of pot control.
Your thoughts about wanting to take the pot down on the flop [especially this type/texture] either means u take a small pot 60% of the time and the other 40% your in trouble scratching your head thinking WTF,this thought process needs changing imho.
Looking at possible hands that villain could have here,there are 43 combos beating you,39 combos that you are flipping with and 70 combos your beating,by checking you give yourself the opportunity of more options on 4th 5th street.
anyhows i hope that gave u a different angle to look at it from. :)
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If we plan to check call, it gives 77-QQ a chance to get away on the turn wen a scare card comes down and this is meant to make up a big portion of his range. We need to remember he isnt meant to b calling w/ 75s hands in this spot. I really think check-calling isnt great as it gives out opponent a chance to get away from the main hands in his range that he stacks off to us with.
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again marty in this situation , with NO reads we cannot put villain on a precise range..We get value pre flop by raising what we think is the best hand , post flop is a different story as now because we have no idea of villains style this logic that players have to cbet every flop to protect or get value is flawed..If the flop was dry J72 rainbow or K46 then the cbet is an ok choice imo,77 to JJ is a very small proportion of a randoms range , QQ most randoms will re-raise pre imo..
Sometimes depending on texture of flops,pot size,stack sizes,position and reads then the cbet is not a automatic line to take,our objectives imo should be flexible..
Try to get out of the mindset that villains should not call 75s,this is a far better hand to call with in this spot than 77-JJ as 75s is easier to play and has more opportunity to improve.
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I was, but put this on here because Gary Philips said to me that he could possibly lay it down. In the end the guy had 5h 7h, so i was virtually dead and buried, but i couldnt understand where i could possibly fold here either?
gary philips good lay down
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again marty in this situation , with NO reads we cannot put villain on a precise range..We get value pre flop by raising what we think is the best hand , post flop is a different story as now because we have no idea of villains style this logic that players have to cbet every flop to protect or get value is flawed..If the flop was dry J72 rainbow or K46 then the cbet is an ok choice imo,77 to JJ is a very small proportion of a randoms range , QQ most randoms will re-raise pre imo..
Sometimes depending on texture of flops,pot size,stack sizes,position and reads then the cbet is not a automatic line to take,our objectives imo should be flexible..
Try to get out of the mindset that villains should not call 75s,this is a far better hand to call with in this spot than 77-JJ as 75s is easier to play and has more opportunity to improve.
So u wud consider check/folding against villain?
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hoo
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Reason I would have folded is that on watchin him not a very experienced player and u just knew he had the nuts so to speak when he went all in, KK hard to put down but ????
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lol at folding
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lol at folding
plus a few more lol"s
then a few more
and a few more
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I"d understand a fold if the stacks were deeper, but here they are not and given how much you have put in, you have to call. As everyone else has said there are so many hands that are beaten that shove here
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He has a straight. We have one pair. Therefore he wins and we lose. We can lose more if we wish.
Poker Hand Ranking
Royal Flush
Straight Flush
Four of a Kind
Full House
Flush
Straight
Three of a Kind
Two Pair
One Pair
High Card
Don"t shove; don"t lead; don"t check. As soon as the flop hits, just muck your cards.
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He has a straight. We have one pair. Therefore he wins and we lose. We can lose more if we wish.
Poker Hand Ranking
Royal Flush
Straight Flush
Four of a Kind
Full House
Flush
Straight
Three of a Kind
Two Pair
One Pair
High Card
Don"t shove; don"t lead; don"t check. As soon as the flop hits, just muck your cards.
Best advice I"ve ever read here.... ::)
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Reading this thread is really interesting so far as to people"s differing opinions of this hand, especially noble1"s
Even looking through all the advice on here I still think my chips are going in, although the smaller bet before the raise was maybe an option i would go for
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Reading this thread is really interesting so far as to people"s differing opinions of this hand, especially noble1"s
Even looking through all the advice on here I still think my chips are going in, although the smaller bet before the raise was maybe an option i would go for
It is 100% a longterm mistake not getting ur chips in here
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Scorch marks on the felt from the speed you shove your chips across the line.
You"re miles ahead of his range here.
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original bet size is the only issue as it is too big and the thinking "i don"t mind taking the pot down here" is flawed. As for getting the chips in the middle with stack sizes there is hardly need for a long discussion about it in my opinion. Anyone who says fold is being results orientated
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Yea - folding is def wrong. I actually dnt mind the $1000 on the flop tht much against sum1 only playing $3800. Takes flatting away as an option for them, but still gives the illusion of some f/e. Maybe sumwer around 700-800 mite get more ppl to ship, but regardless of what we r betting, it isnt to end the hand there, its to get all the chips in the middle while we run in circles naked fist-pumping.
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original bet size is the only issue as it is too big
+1
the thinking "i don"t mind taking the pot down here" is flawed.
+1
Anyone who says fold is being results orientated
+1
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the thing is if you think somebody automatically has the nuts everytime a flop comes down, you really really should not be playing poker.
its a shortstacked tournament, there is no decision to make. Any kind of draws, overpairs, top pairs can be more than possible here