Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: deano147 on October 09, 2007, 22:22:55 PM
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tried to get a seat for walsall did not manage, i just think this way of who ever is the fastest to write there details in on the computer gets a seat is wrong, i think they should put it back to the way they first had it by the way off a random draw.
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tried to get a seat for walsall did not manage, i just think this way of who ever is the fastest to write there details in on the computer gets a seat is wrong, i think they should put it back to the way they first had it by the way off a random draw.
You could then possibly go the rest of your life without getting a seat.
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I have said this from the start deano, but im afraid we are in the minority as most members think this is the best way of doing things.
For what its worth I think everyone who would like a seat should put their name forward via a special link during a specific time frame. For instance between 9.00 - 9.10pm. then a random draw is made.
As it is you are in the lap of the gods with regards to technology. I pressed the make payment link about ten seconds after the link came up, but for some reason it wouldnt take me thru to the payment page. So I miss out, not because I couldnt be bothered but because of a technical fault.
Blimey these grapes are sour.
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Fair poimts made.
I think the problem with a 10 minute window, followed by random draw, without a payment authorised, will then give a headache to the admin to collect the necessary payments.
It"s possible if demand is this high, future events may go the way of a 3 or 4 day tournament, splitting day 1A and day 1B. Grosvenor do this already for their other big comps and are geared up to support the process.
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I thought we, as members of the APAT, were going to get to vote on issues such as how tickets would be sold.
Personally I"m in the random draw camp as it is much fairer and less reliant on people having a good computer and strong broadband connection.
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Random draw is "fairer", but the clickfest ensures that the seats go to those who really want to play (although it means that some who really want to play miss out).
1,000 (or whatever the number is) doesn"t go into 200. People will be disappointed.
Like I"ve said elsewhere though, you can still play. Turn up early on the day, and get yourself to the front of the reserve list.
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It"s not really down to a strong broadband connection or better technology either.
My PC is severely underpowered, my house is so ar from the telephone exchange that I regularly get connected at less than 0.5Mb and my connection fails on a regular basis - but all the times I"ve tried in a clickfest then I"ve succeeded, I doubt I would have got a seat every time if they had been down to a random draw.
Some people do get genuinely unlucky, but I agree with Kin that who gets a seat in a clickfest is largely down to who wants it more, and so who tries the hardest.
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I must also agree with Daniel and Jon.
I have a connection that"s not much faster than Jons, and a PC that has more in common with a 286 than a Pentium (or whatever name they use these days).
I"ve attempted 5 clickfests and been successful each time. Whether I"ve just been lucky, or whether I"ve "wanted it more" and so prepared better than those who haven"t been successful, is up for for debate.
It is unfortunate for those who are not successful, but I don"t think a draw is any fairer.
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For the European event last year, I had two browsers open on my laptop (IE and Firefox, just in case), and two on my desktop (which the wife was manning - or should that be womanning?).
Already having your card details ready, maybe in a text file (for a quick copy and paste), and also making sure you"re actually at home all helps!
I got in.
I think I"ve just given away some trade secrets there, so it might be harder next time....nevermind.
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I think I"ve just given away some trade secrets there, so it might be harder next time....nevermind.
Do"h !! ;)
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It is unfortunate for those who are not successful, but I don"t think a draw is any fairer.
A draw is "fairer". It gives everyone who puts their name forward an equal chance to get in.
That has to be the "fairest" way.
BUT, it probably isn"t the best.
With a draw, no one is committed to playing 100%. It ends up having twice as many people putting their names forward, but many don"t actually take up their seat allocation when they are offered a place.
This means reserve lists.
The problem with that is that people who did want to play but didn"t get in via the draw are left in "limbo", not being able to organise their weekend until the last minute. This means more expensive hotels, having to mess other people around with commitments, etc.
It also means a hell of a lot more work for Des and the team, chasing people up for payment, then informing reserves that they have a seat and have 24 hours or whatever to take up that place. This means more hassle, more confusion, and it still doesn"t necessarily mean that those that really want to play get a seat.
I"ve got into two events via the reserve list after missing out on the main list via the draw. The first time I was 69th on the reserve list, the second time, I was in the teens (but I think it went down to beyond 40th place on the reserve list in the end). If I"d missed out on these events, it would be "fair", but completely out of my control. Saying that of course, I would have turned up early on the day and got myself on the reserve list anyway.
To improve the situation for this season, there are the regional events as well as the online sats. This enables a very large number of people to secure a place well before the clickfest and the associated panic, worry, relief/disappointment.
Until we have 500-seat card rooms (oh, we will soon ;D), then the events are going to be limited to around the 200 mark. Some people are going to be disappointed.
But see the rest of you in Walsall ;)
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You know, every so often you actually speak quite a bit of sense Kin ;) I may get ignored by the masses at Walsall now I"ve complimented you, lol!
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You know, every so often you actually speak quite a bit of sense Kin ;)
LOL - it"s usually an accident.
I may get ignored by the masses at Walsall now I"ve complimented you, lol!
Quite probably disowned by all who know you!
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can anyone help? i managed to get through the direct buy in last night (lucky by the look of it) but a freind of mine tried aswell without result. wots the earliest he can get himself on the reserve list?
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The reserve list I"ve been talking about is opened up on the day on a first come, first served basis.
The earlier you"re there at the casino, the more chance you have of being ahead of others who want to do the same thing.
Last season, some people got there for 9am...
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Good replys guys, at least we"ve opened the debate again.
One thing I disagree with from a personal point of view is that those that try hardest will succeed. I was at my computer at 8.50pm pressing ctrl F5 until my fingers hurt. Credit Card details written out on paper so easy to read, but as I have already stated nothing happened when I pressed make payment. How hard am I supposed to try. I have never managed to get a seat via a clickfest yet, but others have a 100% record ????
Also please keep quiet about the reserve list on the day, as I"ve managed to get in at Birmingham and even flew to Dublin and managed to get in using this method. So please keep it down.
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One thing I disagree with from a personal point of view is that those that try hardest will succeed. I was at my computer at 8.50pm pressing ctrl F5 until my fingers hurt. Credit Card details written out on paper so easy to read, but as I have already stated nothing happened when I pressed make payment.
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I did say, "...Some people do get genuinely unlucky..." . ;)
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Good replys guys, at least we"ve opened the debate again.
One thing I disagree with from a personal point of view is that those that try hardest will succeed.
It"s not those that try hardest will definitely succeed via the clickfest, but that those who did succeed did try hard. Whereas via the draw, people will succeed without any effort or real interest in playing.
So the clickfest definitely means that some who"ve tried hard will be disappointed. Unfortunately.
I was at my computer at 8.50pm pressing ctrl F5 until my fingers hurt. Credit Card details written out on paper so easy to read, but as I have already stated nothing happened when I pressed make payment. How hard am I supposed to try. I have never managed to get a seat via a clickfest yet, but others have a 100% record ????
This is something that should be looked into. It could be your ISP (who do you get your internet connection through) that is the problem. Maybe next time you"ll have to try the clickfest from someone else"s house?
Also please keep quiet about the reserve list on the day, as I"ve managed to get in at Birmingham and even flew to Dublin and managed to get in using this method. So please keep it down.
What reserve list...?
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This is something that should be looked into. It could be your ISP (who do you get your internet connection through) that is the problem. Maybe next time you"ll have to try the clickfest from someone else"s house?
Was thinking of this myself as a friend of mine has managed to get a seat every time so far and he only lives around the corner. The last time it failed was when we had to send e-mails for the Dublin event. I later had a nice e-mail from Tiscali stating that they were very sorry but some users e-mails had not been forwarded due to a technial problem. (Great).
Anyway good luck in Walsall.
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f****ng Tiscali >:(
They"re not the best of ISP"s are they?
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f****ng Tiscali >:(
They"re not the best of ISP"s are they?
No, they certainly aren"t. I don"t believe that you were alone with the Tiscali problem. There might be some substance to it being ISP-related.
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how about like someone mentioned earlier with a larger playing field apat will be growing bigger and bigger as time goes by why not have the nationals done over two weekends day 1a 1b,1c, then play a final day could work should allow 3times as many players getting in and a bigger prizepool
what do you guys think?
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how about like someone mentioned earlier with a larger playing field apat will be growing bigger and bigger as time goes by why not have the nationals done over two weekends day 1a 1b,1c, then play a final day could work should allow 3times as many players getting in and a bigger prizepool
what do you guys think?
It would mean people being forced to take time off work to play.
Although that might be alright once or twice (for the European or World events for example) it would be biased against people who don"t have much control over when they take their holiday days if it was done for all the national events.
But if it is done for 1 or 2 it would still give an opportunity for people who are unlucky with clickfests to enter a couple of tournaments in a year.
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I find it disapointing that the regional events had such poor turn-outs when there is always so many people wanting to go to the national events. I was in two minds about driving from Cheltenham to the walsall regional as i didn"t want to drive all that way and find it a sell-out. In the end I decided to take the chance only to find there were only 31 entrants, thus increasing the number of seats availiable via the "click-fest"
I imagine that as people realise that the regional events give you more chance at securing a seat these will fill leaving people disappointed that they couldn"t get a seat in the regional. What then?
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Can"t be giving away our Season Three secrets just yet. But think "local".
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Can"t be giving away our Season Three secrets just yet. But think "local".
We won"t get many people in my "local"!!
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Des is buying the beers?
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APAT Pub....I like it, as Alan said, we might not get too many poker players in, but heh....it"s a pub, right!
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For the European event last year, I had two browsers open on my laptop (IE and Firefox, just in case), and two on my desktop (which the wife was manning - or should that be womanning?).
Already having your card details ready, maybe in a text file (for a quick copy and paste), and also making sure you"re actually at home all helps!
I got in.
I think I"ve just given away some trade secrets there, so it might be harder next time....nevermind.
OMG - And I thought I was sad! :D
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OMG - And I thought I was sad! :D
...and you"re not alone with that thought, Stuart ;D
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Hey try this no direct buy in to nationals all seats to nationals spread over the regionals and on line.
Cream of the Cream !
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For the European event last year, I had two browsers open on my laptop (IE and Firefox, just in case), and two on my desktop (which the wife was manning - or should that be womanning?).
Already having your card details ready, maybe in a text file (for a quick copy and paste), and also making sure you"re actually at home all helps!
I got in.
I think I"ve just given away some trade secrets there, so it might be harder next time....nevermind.
OMG - And I thought I was sad! :D
I got in, didn"t I?
;D
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Or alternatively, all entries via live regionals plus direct buy in, scrap the online qualifiers.
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Hey try this no direct buy in to nationals all seats to nationals spread over the regionals and on line.
Cream of the Cream !
I think I suggested this last year and was quickly shot down. I do like the idea but can understand why APAT might not buy in to it. (no pun intended)
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Alternatively, leave it as it is?
(http://blondepoker.com/forum/Smileys/default/dontask.gif)
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Alternatively, leave it as it is?
(http://blondepoker.com/forum/Smileys/default/dontask.gif)
Gets my vote, can"t think why nobody suggested it before :P
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I quite like the clickfests in a sort of masochistic way and no i havent got in every time with them!!!
As for an earlier point about someone not being prepared to travel to go on a reserve list remember season 1??
Lee Mulligan wins in Wales fails to get into Scotland.
I get to Edinburgh at 10 am and who is camping outside.... Lee, keen to be first on the reserve list.
where did Lee have to come from to get to Edinburgh??
Oh yes Southampton!!!!
thats dedication!!.
Wasnt Scotland a random draw and wasnt it the event with the most withdrawals?
I think the clickfest ensures people who really want to play the event get the remaining seats
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Alternatively, leave it as it is?
(http://blondepoker.com/forum/Smileys/default/dontask.gif)
Absolutely - top idea.
Until the end of Season 2 anyway :)
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Just one point about the regionals.
I played in the Grosvenor Plymouth regional on the Sat 6th Oct, but only found out about the event on Thurs 4th Oct! The card-room guy caught wind of it on the Wednesday!
Only 16 runners turned up, hence 2 seats for walsall and winner take all prize money on the night. At least I picked up some ranking points. :P
Maybe a better turn out in on November 10th.
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The first regionals were kept purposefully low-key, as they were effectively trials.
The subsequent ones will be promoted and it is expected there"ll be greater numbers at them as a result.
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I have just typed an essay on this and its gone missing, dam post, not typint that again.
In a nutshell, the suppl
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I have just typed an essay on this and its gone missing, dam post, not typint that again.
In a nutshell, the suppl
lol...how funny is that.....
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Jimmy, cut off in his prime...it"s a sad, sad day...... :D
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Ha-ha, that is my 14 month old, sneaked up on the laptop and unplugged the dam machine. Am taking me ball home, not playing.,.,., ::)
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Genius!! Best post on here so far! LOL
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My two pence worth.....i have a 50% win rate on the click fest.the other was my faut in that i was unaware of the Ctr F5 "secret".
What would be the issue with doing a draw for the seats instead of the clickfest. By simply putting in a few rules it could be worked out to be the fairest ways.
Say there is 80 seats available...At 9pm you "apply" to register for the event
APAT draw 1st 80 names.....Bulk e-mail..saying well done..pay link
YOU HAVE 24HRS TO PAY IN FULL VIA THE LINK..
In the initial draw of 80 players...APAT actually draw another (20/30/40..etc)
After the 24hrs, APAT contact the next 20/30/40 on the list, well done 24hr pay link.
Any not filled...can be used through the already existing reserve list...
Randon Draw...Equal for everyone
Roughly same timescale as Clickfest, at least no rela harm done time wise
More possible seats for those who make the effort for the reserve list on the day
Your thoughts....
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You could go the whole year without getting a seat - but with a clickfest you won"t.
It would create a lot of extra work and bureaucracy for very little benefit, plus ill feeling from those who continually miss out and were always able to get a seat through the clickfest method.
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agree it isn"t perfect...but it would be totally fair...100% to all people..and dependant on if you live in a dodgy area, no broadband. old Pc..etc..etc..
APAT should be available to all members for all the APAT tournaments regardless of location or RAM budget, Broadband connection....a draw is the only way I can think of that will allow this.
The odds (come on stat people) that you"d not get a seat for the whole year, i"m guess wouldn"t happen?..at the very least, with the people with connection issues, it 100% improves your chances..
A tricky one. and I suppose the clickfest works, makes life for the APAT a whole lot easier..so if it aint broke...
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The odds (come on stat people) that you"d not get a seat for the whole year, i"m guess wouldn"t happen?..
Say 1600 applications for 200 places.
Chances of not getting in 1: 87.5%
Chances of not getting in 2: 76.6%
Chances of not getting in 3: 67.0%
Chances of not getting in 4: 58.6%
Chances of not getting in 5: 51.3%
Chances of not getting in 6: 44.9%
Chances of not getting in 7: 39.3%
Chances of not getting in 8: 34.4%
So about 1 in 3 chance of never getting a seat, that"s better than a coinflip but it"s not very good - and that"s assuming you can make every event.
I was only able to make 3 events in the first season - so that would mean a 2 in 3 chance of not being able to get in to any of the 3 I was able to get to.
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It"s a fair suggestion but incredibly difficult to administer. I am basing that on the experience of doing this at least twice - we trialled lots of entry methods in season one.
An example. You sell 80 seats and give everyone 24 hours to pay. 20 won"t. Major remail to the reserves (2nd list). 10 don"t respond. So you send 10 seats to the next reserve list (3rd list). 2 people come back from the original list. 1 claims the APAT email has only arrived with them. The other claims they responded in plenty of time and they have bought their flight. It"s APAT's fault for not receiving their response. Meanwhile, 2 people come back from the 2nd list claiming they were only a few hours late in responding, and stating how unreasonable APAT is. And on.
In this scenario APAT would go from disappointing people to seriously annoying them. Not good.
Bizarelly, the beneficiaries would be those who turned up at the venue, because it is nearly impossible to fill a tournament utilising this form of system and without seriously alienating your customers.
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My personal favourite method was the one employed for the UK event last year.
Des informed the membership that the link would appear sometime between 9pm and 11pm on a particular date.
You REALLY had to want that seat to hit "reload" continuously during that period before the link appeared !! Just a pity the system crashed mid way through :D
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Funny thing is that it didn"t sell out that evening. Seats were still available later in the week when they went on sale again (was that because of a system problem or lack of demand?).
I couldn"t make that one, at a sodding wedding.
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System problem.
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My personal favourite method was the one employed for the UK event last year.
Des informed the membership that the link would appear sometime between 9pm and 11pm on a particular date.
You REALLY had to want that seat to hit "reload" continuously during that period before the link appeared !! Just a pity the system crashed mid way through :D
I dunno....we originally gave a 24 hour window......but pulled that back to two hours when members threatened to have a bean fest the night before the event. I was particularly worried about Carl and Ger ;D
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I have just typed an essay on this and its gone missing, dam post, not typing that again.
In a nutshell, the suppl
Not only did the little devil pull the lead, he bashed the keys on the laptop and 3 of them jumped of. I have been on the websites and they do go back on, but boy oh boy do you need super tiny fingers and lots and lots of patience.
All back on now and working you will all be glad to know.,.,.
Its my own downfall, I showed him Barney songs on youtube, and he now thinks the laptop is Barney Vision.
Note to those without kids - Barney is a big purple dinosaur.
Anyway off to bed will post what I was going to tomorrow.
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Tell the truth Jimmy, you"ve been on the "meds" all day ;D
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Tell the truth Jimmy, you"ve been on the "meths" all day ;D
FYP
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Duly noted Jons stats (very good) and APAT response..I back down!!..it was just a thought..stoking the fire of debate..
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The odds (come on stat people) that you"d not get a seat for the whole year, i"m guess wouldn"t happen?..
Say 1600 applications for 200 places.
Chances of not getting in 1: 87.5%
Chances of not getting in 2: 76.6%
Chances of not getting in 3: 67.0%
Chances of not getting in 4: 58.6%
Chances of not getting in 5: 51.3%
Chances of not getting in 6: 44.9%
Chances of not getting in 7: 39.3%
Chances of not getting in 8: 34.4%
So about 1 in 3 chance of never getting a seat, that"s better than a coinflip but it"s not very good - and that"s assuming you can make every event.
I was only able to make 3 events in the first season - so that would mean a 2 in 3 chance of not being able to get in to any of the 3 I was able to get to.
It doesn"t matter if you do it by a draw or a click feast, if it is fair then everybody has the same chance of getting a spot. However, some people have more advantage for the click-feast so this will actually mean it less likely for somebody without the knowledge of winning the click-feast a much less chance of getting a spot.
Of course, you could do a draw but give people a weight depending on whether they were successful in the previous round. For example everybody starts with a weight of 10. All those that are successful in a draw have their weight for the next draw halved and those who entered the draw but unlucky not to get a spot have their weight doubled for the next draw. Those not entering have their weight unaltered. ifsomebody wins a seat and doesn"t take it up then their wiethed is either halved or quartered.
This would enablemot pople to playt least one event per year
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However, some people have more advantage for the click-feast so this will actually mean it less likely for somebody without the knowledge of winning the click-feast a much less chance of getting a spot.
Could someone explain this statement... what is "the knowledge of winning a click-fest"?
The only thing I would change about the "click-fest" would be to sell the seats in two lots, at different times on different days.
This would ease the pain of those who -
- Can"t make Wed night.
- Can"t make 9.00pm.
- Had computer / ISP problems.
- and any number of other reasons for missing out...
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However, some people have more advantage for the click-feast so this will actually mean it less likely for somebody without the knowledge of winning the click-feast a much less chance of getting a spot.
Could someone explain this statement... what is "the knowledge of winning a click-fest"?
The only thing I would change about the "click-fest" would be to sell the seats in two lots, at different times on different days.
This would ease the pain of those who -
- Can"t make Wed night.
- Can"t make 9.00pm.
- Had computer / ISP problems.
- and any number of other reasons for missing out...
I think that people have already mentioned in this thread the things they do to give themselves an edge. Some people have very slow connections and are disadvantaged.
I"m new and haven"t tried to enter for a national event and not sure I"ll be able to anyway this season. I haven"t done one of these click-feast things, so don"t know what you need to do. Also I don"t understand why people want a click-feast or less it is going to give them an advantage. It is clear that a draw is the fairest way.
Of course a lot depends on what the objective of APAT, is it just to provide these events or give fair opportunity for all to play in these events and as many people as possible to experience deep stack live events at an affordable price.
Of course as highlighted by APAT earlier in the thread, the practical advantages of a click-feast make this the easiest way of allocating seats at the moment.
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Some people have very slow connections and are disadvantaged.
As I"ve stated earlier, I have a slow connection and an old PC - 4 successes out of 4 via a clickfest, and 1 out of 1 via a draw.
Maybe I"m just lucky, I am pretty sure, however, that technology is not that much of an issue.......
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This season for the National events there are 3 ways to gain entry; live satelite - online satelite - clickfest. This gives all members a chance to gain entry to the events.
The national events are limited by the number of seats available from the casino, and I think these could be sold twice over. But we have what we have and we have to make the best use of it. Each event gives every member of the APAT a fair way to gain entry. I know the dissapointment of missing out on these events but as many have suggested if you want to get into these events, and it does depend on how much you want to, but you will get every opportunity to get in. Even turning up on the day after travelling hundreds of miles, flying to events and turning up with no pomise of a seat. Not that the APAT would condone this, but this is what members have took it upon themselves to do, to try to enter a tourney.
The demand is way outstripping supply but this is a good thing. This shows casino"s that there is a good solid market for long deepstack affordable buy in tournaments, and hopefully after some time they will change the way they run there normal tournaments.
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This season for the National events there are 3 ways to gain entry; live satelite - online satelite - clickfest. This gives all members a chance to gain entry to the events.
The national events are limited by the number of seats available from the casino, and I think these could be sold twice over. But we have what we have and we have to make the best use of it. Each event gives every member of the APAT a fair way to gain entry. I know the dissapointment of missing out on these events but as many have suggested if you want to get into these events, and it does depend on how much you want to, but you will get every opportunity to get in. Even turning up on the day after travelling hundreds of miles, flying to events and turning up with no pomise of a seat. Not that the APAT would condone this, but this is what members have took it upon themselves to do, to try to enter a tourney.
The demand is way outstripping supply but this is a good thing. This shows casino"s that there is a good solid market for long deepstack affordable buy in tournaments, and hopefully after some time they will change the way they run there normal tournaments.
That saved me typing. Agree with all of that.
Leigh
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This season for the National events there are 3 ways to gain entry; live satelite - online satelite - clickfest. This gives all members a chance to gain entry to the events.
The national events are limited by the number of seats available from the casino, and I think these could be sold twice over. But we have what we have and we have to make the best use of it. Each event gives every member of the APAT a fair way to gain entry. I know the dissapointment of missing out on these events but as many have suggested if you want to get into these events, and it does depend on how much you want to, but you will get every opportunity to get in. Even turning up on the day after travelling hundreds of miles, flying to events and turning up with no pomise of a seat. Not that the APAT would condone this, but this is what members have took it upon themselves to do, to try to enter a tourney.
The demand is way outstripping supply but this is a good thing. This shows casino"s that there is a good solid market for long deepstack affordable buy in tournaments, and hopefully after some time they will change the way they run there normal tournaments.
That saved me typing. Agree with all of that.
Leigh
Totally agree.
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Maybe I"m just lucky, .........
I agree Iain, I saw you play in Dublin and there is no way you got that far through skill. ;)