Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Live Poker => Topic started by: cabbie007 on October 10, 2007, 09:49:46 AM
-
Hi All and The Top Brass Of APAT,
I am new to APAT which seems to be a very strong brand with growing members. Blue Square on board with Grosvenor Casinos, so to solve the Nationals being over subscribed a new deal needs to be proposed.
I am sure if APAT approched a number of TV companys or even the present TV company which covers this years first Grosvenor UK Poker Tour sponsored by Blue Square more could be done for APAT members.
With TV backing Grosvenor Casinos would give more floor space and more days for the Nationals for all members to play. This would put APAT on the map in the UK as the only Amateur Poker Association for budding poker players to start there path to glory.
Its upseting for members not to be able to play in the Nationals ! Do you really think I am gonna go to Walsall from London to queue in the reserve list to be told sorry no room ! I propose the following:
1) Regionals - Players should have the choice take your seat in the Nationals or the money instead. Not all members want to play arround the country
2) Membership - All members issued with membership cards, you have to become a member first BEFORE you play. Turning up at a Regionals and playing on the day should be stopped, why because at some venues some people entered for fun as there were just in the casino at the time. This is an Apat event not come all, there not interested in Apat just playing that day.
3) Nationals - NO CLICK FEST ! Current Members pre-register over a 24 Hour period then Apat deduct payments. Maybe for the casinos to give up more room for more players £75 buy-in and £25 to casino = £100. 500 players = £12,500 to casino I am sure this would help them accomadate more players. These events would grow and grow boosting Apat as a Major force in UK Poker, more players to play everyone is happy.
Apat any thoughts ?
Members any more ideas ?
Kind Regards To all
Cabbie007
-
I don"t speak officially for APAT, and my response is my own personal thoughts and opinions:
Hi All and The Top Brass Of APAT,
I am new to APAT which seems to be a very strong brand with growing members. Blue Square on board with Grosvenor Casinos, so to solve the Nationals being over subscribed a new deal needs to be proposed.
I am sure if APAT approched a number of TV companys or even the present TV company which covers this years first Grosvenor UK Poker Tour sponsored by Blue Square more could be done for APAT members.
Who would pay for the TV coverage? The GUKPT has a LOT more money in the pool - it"s £1,000 a seat! There"s also juice for the casino to come out of the buy-in, not so in APAT.
With TV backing Grosvenor Casinos would give more floor space and more days for the Nationals for all members to play. This would put APAT on the map in the UK as the only Amateur Poker Association for budding poker players to start there path to glory.
The casinos are usually full to capacity for the National events.
Its upseting for members not to be able to play in the Nationals ! Do you really think I am gonna go to Walsall from London to queue in the reserve list to be told sorry no room !
Others do.
I propose the following:
1) Regionals - Players should have the choice take your seat in the Nationals or the money instead. Not all members want to play arround the country
That"s exactly how it is at the moment, isn"t it?
2) Membership - All members issued with membership cards, you have to become a member first BEFORE you play. Turning up at a Regionals and playing on the day should be stopped, why because at some venues some people entered for fun as there were just in the casino at the time. This is an Apat event not come all, there not interested in Apat just playing that day.
As far as I"m aware, part of the deal that secured the venues and the added value from Rank (Grosvenor and BlueSQ) was that anyone who played in an APAT event online or live would automatically become an APAT member.
I"m not 100% happy with the way it"s worked out, but you can"t please everyone 100% all the time. Des has struck a cracking deal that means there"s twice as much added value as Season 1. That can"t be all bad, can it?
3) Nationals - NO CLICK FEST ! Current Members pre-register over a 24 Hour period then Apat deduct payments.
I"ve covered this on another thread. How do you deal with 500 people wanting to play in a 200-capacity casino?
Maybe for the casinos to give up more room for more players £75 buy-in and £25 to casino = £100. 500 players = £12,500 to casino I am sure this would help them accomadate more players.
That would certainly help to cut the numbers adding 33% juice on the tournament buy-in. There"d be plenty of free seats then!
These events would grow and grow boosting Apat as a Major force in UK Poker, more players to play everyone is happy.
APAT is becoming a major force in UK poker, and it will continue to grow. For an organisation that has been running for a little over 12 months, it"s made quite a splash, hasn"t it?
Apat any thoughts ?
Members any more ideas ?
I don"t think the regionals are running as APAT would like yet - but that"s expected, and why the first ones were kept low-key. They were really trial runs.
There are also the other events (Pro-Am, inter-forum tournaments, internationals, etc.) to look forward to this year.
Like I said, that"s just my personal thoughts. Des will probably answer in more detail and correct me where I"m wrong.
-
One point I"d address is that of additional day ones.
Although I think this is appropriate for the European/World (i.e. higher status) tournaments, it isn"t for every tournament.
The reason being is that as APAt is aimed at amateur players, 2 day ones virtually requires people to take time off work. If this was the norm rather than the exception it would penalise those players who have limited opportunity to pick and choose when to take time off.
It is because of this that the limit of casino"s card rooms effectively becomes the limit of the National event being held there - so any added incentive for the casinos isn"t required as it will make no difference to the capacity.
-
here"s my humble 2 peneth worth.
1) No. This choice shouldnt be given. The whole point of the regionals is so that people have a live opportunity to qualify for national events and not just an online satellite opportunity. If some people decide they want to play just for the cash this changes how they may play. i.e. we generally play satellite tournaments differently to normal tournaments.
2) I agree here, however I understand that as part of the sponsorship deal this cannot now be implemented. So we have our bed and will have to lie in it.
3) Personally I wouldnt play in ANY tournament where the juice was 33% of the buy-in. This would completely negate the added value, which APAT have managed to do so well in negotiating with the sponsors. I think the fact that the events are oversubscribed in turn gives higher status to the events themselves and they feel far more important to those that manage to get a seat.
-
here"s my humble 2 peneth worth.
1) No. This choice shouldnt be given. The whole point of the regionals is so that people have a live opportunity to qualify for national events and not just an online satellite opportunity. If some people decide they want to play just for the cash this changes how they may play. i.e. we generally play satellite tournaments differently to normal tournaments.
If a player has to drop out due to illness or a family bereavement, they"d get a refund - wouldn"t they?
Other players will take their seats, so no one loses out. The prize pool is maintained, and someone who wants the seat gets it. Yes, it would be annoying for those who bubbled in the regionals to see that they would have had a seat if someone who placed doesn"t take up the offer of the seat - but there"s no way round it really.
Maybe there is a partial solution. Those that don"t take up the seat only get a partial refund. Maybe £50, with the £25 taken as an admin fee. Although this would be harsh for those who have a legitimate reason for not being able to attend.
More ideas to discuss I guess...
-
...
1) No. This choice shouldnt be given. The whole point of the regionals is so that people have a live opportunity to qualify for national events and not just an online satellite opportunity. If some people decide they want to play just for the cash this changes how they may play. i.e. we generally play satellite tournaments differently to normal tournaments.
...
aarggh!! How many times do I have to make this argument?
The whole point of the regionals is not just, "so that people have a live opportunity to qualify for national events", they are not just satellites.
Not only are they tournaments within their own right (with prize money and medals), they are part of the regional championship - you score points and try to win the Regional "league" as such.
There is no reason to particularly believe that any player who enters a regional tournament wants the seat in the National tournament.
-
I would.
-
I would.
Lots would - I"m just saying that it is a reason to enter, but not the only reason.
-
I would.
Lots would - I"m just saying that it is a reason to enter, but not the only reason.
I know. I was just being annoying.
-
I would.
Lots would - I"m just saying that it is a reason to enter, but not the only reason.
I know. I was just being annoying.
;D - I considered starting my last post with, "are you deliberately being annoying?" - but then realised that it would be a rhetorical question. ;D
-
Hello Cabbie, its great that you have taken the time to put your thoughts forward and your efforts show how much the amateur card players wish there voice to be heard. I'm sure your contribution will be very valuable in the future of the APAt. Here are some of my own thoughts on your points raised.
1.) As JonMW says the regional's are competitions in there own rights but they also act as satellites as good counter point to the problems of over subscription. I take your point on board and maybe on occasion a cash prize might be more suitable. Personally I would like at some point to see players who have made failed attempts to qualify through the regional events given some kind of advantage in purchasing seats for the nationals.
2.) I really like the fact people can join on the day and play, I believe the APAt needs to be as inclusive as possible and weight of number will really help the association in its attempts to make positive changes for card players in general. Also once players have tried the structures and experienced the camaraderie at the events I think they will become positive contributing members to the association. This will become more prevalent as the local associations form and grow.
3.) One of the aims of the association is to make sure every one gets a fair shake and are not exploited, 33% juice is not going to help in that aim. I don't think anyone really likes the click fests and I'm sure it's a long term aim to eliminate them by various means which will be supported by the regional APAt organisations when they are fully formed.
These are just my own personal thoughts, yada yada yada.
-
1.) ...........Personally I would like at some point to see players who have made failed attempts to qualify through the regional events given some kind of advantage in purchasing seats for the nationals.
And in what way is that fair to those players unable to take part in a regional tournament ? Do you propose the same for those who miss out on qualification via the online events ?
As has been mentioned earlier, the regionals are events in their own right and have their own championship status, they are not solely for the purpose of qualifying for a national.
Ian
-
Ok maybe priorty to the Nationals should first be the people who attended the regionals.
There is a two tier click fest Day one would be those who attended a regional event but who missed out on seats, APAT would have a list of this. This could use software like Online tournys where you recieve a tourny token to enter then buy your seat.
Day two whatever seats are left goes on gerneral sale. in turn this would boost the regional attendance.
-
Hi All and The Top Brass Of APAT,
Indeed!
I am new to APAT which seems to be a very strong brand with growing members. Blue Square on board with Grosvenor Casinos, so to solve the Nationals being over subscribed a new deal needs to be proposed.
I am sure if APAT approched a number of TV companys or even the present TV company which covers this years first Grosvenor UK Poker Tour sponsored by Blue Square more could be done for APAT members.
With TV backing Grosvenor Casinos would give more floor space and more days for the Nationals for all members to play. This would put APAT on the map in the UK as the only Amateur Poker Association for budding poker players to start there path to glory.
Do your homework please - TV companies to not pay to cover poker events in the UK, poker companies do (base your thinking on circa £50,000 a day). I would much rather our sponsors invest in our players and events than late night TV coverage.
Its upseting for members not to be able to play in the Nationals ! Do you really think I am gonna go to Walsall from London to queue in the reserve list to be told sorry no room ! I propose the following:
APAT has increased the number of seats available to members from c1,200 to c. 8,000 in Season Two. Without sounding smug, APAT is delivering at an incredible rate but clearly we cannot magic up larger cardrooms? (but I have wrote it down as a development opportunity ;D
1) Regionals - Players should have the choice take your seat in the Nationals or the money instead. Not all members want to play arround the country
I tend to agree with this, but if we go this route then a great deal of administration will follow and other initiatives will be shelved. Which would be a shame, as we have some very exciting stuff planned ;)
2) Membership - All members issued with membership cards, you have to become a member first BEFORE you play. Turning up at a Regionals and playing on the day should be stopped, why because at some venues some people entered for fun as there were just in the casino at the time. This is an Apat event not come all, there not interested in Apat just playing that day.
Nope. APAT's core objective is to pull together the largest independent body of players in the UK, to influence widescale pro player change in the industry. The tour and everything that surrounds it is a tool to that end.
3) Nationals - NO CLICK FEST ! Current Members pre-register over a 24 Hour period then Apat deduct payments. Maybe for the casinos to give up more room for more players £75 buy-in and £25 to casino = £100. 500 players = £12,500 to casino I am sure this would help them accomadate more players. These events would grow and grow boosting Apat as a Major force in UK Poker, more players to play everyone is happy.
APAT is already a significant force in UK poker and we are ideally positioned to become the most significant force. Adding a 33% rake would be wrong wrong wrong.
Apat any thoughts ?
A great deal of thought has gone into the direction that APAT has taken thus far and if players really want to contribute positively to discussions on future strategy, then it is not enough to jot topline thoughts like this, punctuated with words like "NO CLICK FEST" etc, without giving your submission a fair deal of thought prior. I don"t mean to be harsh Cabbie, but APAT didn"t just "happen".
Members any more ideas ?
Kind Regards To all
Cabbie007
Not wanting to be flippant, but the introduction of the Regional Championship and additional 7,000 seats is the answer. From a tour point of view, I"m not sure what we can do further to create more seats.
-
Would somebody please teach me how to use the forum quote function!
-
1.) ...........Personally I would like at some point to see players who have made failed attempts to qualify through the regional events given some kind of advantage in purchasing seats for the nationals.
And in what way is that fair to those players unable to take part in a regional tournament ? Do you propose the same for those who miss out on qualification via the online events ?
As has been mentioned earlier, the regionals are events in their own right and have their own championship status, they are not solely for the purpose of qualifying for a national.
Ian
Yep sounds fair to me, if you have made efforts to qualify online you should get higher priority.
-
1.) ...........Personally I would like at some point to see players who have made failed attempts to qualify through the regional events given some kind of advantage in purchasing seats for the nationals.
And in what way is that fair to those players unable to take part in a regional tournament ? Do you propose the same for those who miss out on qualification via the online events ?
As has been mentioned earlier, the regionals are events in their own right and have their own championship status, they are not solely for the purpose of qualifying for a national.
Ian
Yep sounds fair to me, if you have made efforts to qualify online you should get higher priority.
And how is that fair on people who can"t make the regionals (because they live too far away from a participating casino for example), and who don"t like playing online?
-
:"(
It makes me think weather I should post any thoughts in the future, as it is just thoughts and to promote discussion.
In no way have I attacked APAT, I think its a great idea but maybe its growing fast than APAT. So many members will want to play the Regionals and the Nationals, but it seems a lot of players face disapointment.
And yes your first reply to ME does seem harsh !
But is there any procedure for players who have not got a seat to Walsall to turn up on the day and if there is can you post a thread on the how to do this.
As I said before
Kind Regards !
cabbie007
-
Would somebody please teach me how to use the forum quote function!
;D See me in Walsall Des ;D
-
:"(
It makes me think weather I should post any thoughts in the future, as it is just thoughts and to promote discussion.
In no way have I attacked APAT, I think its a great idea but maybe its growing fast than APAT. So many members will want to play the Regionals and the Nationals, but it seems a lot of players face disapointment.
And yes your first reply to ME does seem harsh !
But is there any procedure for players who have not got a seat to Walsall to turn up on the day and if there is can you post a thread on the how to do this.
As I said before
Kind Regards !
cabbie007
Sorry Cabbie, I certainly do not intend to be harsh, but we do see 100"s of views, and sometimes they give the impression that we are not thinking major decisions through, which we certainly try to. The feedback is great, continually justifying some of our decisions is however hard work :D Head up, we"ll get there in the end and thanks for posting!
Walsall information will follow, along with details of on the day reserve lists.
-
1.) ...........Personally I would like at some point to see players who have made failed attempts to qualify through the regional events given some kind of advantage in purchasing seats for the nationals.
And in what way is that fair to those players unable to take part in a regional tournament ? Do you propose the same for those who miss out on qualification via the online events ?
As has been mentioned earlier, the regionals are events in their own right and have their own championship status, they are not solely for the purpose of qualifying for a national.
Ian
Yep sounds fair to me, if you have made efforts to qualify online you should get higher priority.
And how is that fair on people who can"t make the regionals (because they live too far away from a participating casino for example), and who don"t like playing online?
They don"t play online and can"t get to a casino, when do they play? On the topic of fairness, Is it fair they have equal chance to play in national comps as the people who play the online comps or the regionals.
-
Would somebody please teach me how to use the forum quote function!
In the quote section you can remove other messages by changing the string ;)
-
On the topic of fairness, Is it fair they have equal chance to play in national comps as the people who play the online comps or the regionals.
Yes, apologies but I don"t see any argument against.
-
On the topic of fairness, Is it fair they have equal chance to play in national comps as the people who play the online comps or the regionals.
Yes, apologies but I don"t see any argument against.
Agree to differ then I suppose, Just reading the post from the guy the other night about trying to qualify online,though the regionals and then the click fest. It just seemed unfair that someone who so desperately wants to be involved has less chance then joe blow with higher speed connection.
-
Allowing alternates would ease the pain! ::)
8)
-
Agree to differ then I suppose, Just reading the post from the guy the other night about trying to qualify online,though the regionals and then the click fest. It just seemed unfair that someone who so desperately wants to be involved has less chance then joe blow with higher speed connection.
No problem agreeing to differ, but I"m not so sure that technology is an issue either.
I have a broadband connection (like Jon Woodfield) that rarely gets above 0.5 Mb, with a connection that"s up and down like the proverbial - one of the reasons why I never play online. I also have a PC that"s about 4 years old and steam powered.
I think we should step back here, and not make assumptions as why some people are successful at a clickfest, and others not. I certainly wouldn"t want APAT making any changes based on unproved assumptions.
-
;D
Hey APAT we are friends again 8)
I will go to Walsall just hope its worth the trip to get a seat as I think there will a lot of guys doing the same.
I also play Poker Project which gave me the confidence to play live, came in handy as I am used to self dealing. Noticed at Leg 1 G Vic that some players had not dealed before which slowed the game down.
I think APAT is going to very over subsrcibed as the year goes on, not just the Nationals but the Regionals to. Which is great endorsement to the APAT brand but could be heart braking to some players.
At the next leg 2 at the G Vic London I will be bringing another 6 players, just one more thing APAT........
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, ITS A GREAT IDEA AND A GREAT BRAND !
Kind Regards
john
-
...At the next leg 2 at the G Vic London I will be bringing another 6 players...
There"s a chance I will be doing the same for the Brighton leg - lets hope the extra people we bring aren"t the ones who end up knocking us out :)
-
I think a lot of the inconsistency with regard to who is successful in the clickfest is simply down to the payment processors site being overwhelmed at 21:00.
Perhaps phasing the the buy-ins would be the answer. How about...
21:00-21:04 Open the buy-in link to all members whose christian name begins with A...
21:05-21:09 Open the buy-in link to all members whose christian name begins with B...
21:10-21:14 Open the buy-in link to all members whose christian name begins with C...
21:15-21:19 Open the buy-in link to all members whose christian name begins with D...
etc...
etc...
What do you think?
8)
-
I think a lot of the inconsistency with regard to who is successful in the clickfest is simply down to the payment processors site being overwhelmed at 21:00.
Perhaps phasing the the buy-ins would be the answer. How about...
21:00-21:04 Open the buy-in link to all members whose christian name begins with A...
21:05-21:09 Open the buy-in link to all members whose christian name begins with B...
21:10-21:14 Open the buy-in link to all members whose christian name begins with C...
21:15-21:19 Open the buy-in link to all members whose christian name begins with D...
etc...
etc...
What do you think?
8)
:D ::)
-
A great idea Alan. ;D
All the best
Aardvark Aardvarksson
-
;D ;D ;D
-
Des it looks like you"ve created a monster!
Of course we needed a large membership if those in charge of the casino groups were going listen to us and also offer good sponsorship deals for the Apat tour.
Of course the trouble now is with well over probably 2000 members and National events, which the vast majority of the membership want to play in, that can only cater for 150-200 at a time, there are bound to be disappointments.
The problem now is trying to keep everybody happy so that you dont end up with people becoming disenchanted and leaving the Apat community.
So my idea for what its worth is this.
If you play in a National event the only way you can play in the next one is by qualifying, either live or online. So you"ve still got a chance, through ability, to play in every event but it means that National places will be shared out amongst the membership.
Just an idea, what do you think.
-
So my idea for what its worth is this.
If you play in a National event the only way you can play in the next one is by qualifying, either live or online. So you"ve still got a chance, through ability, to play in every event but it means that National places will be shared out amongst the membership.
Just an idea, what do you think.
I think that there should always be room at Nationals/World events for those who wish to buy-in direct. (You know the ones, like me, who can afford it but just donk off at the tables...you WANT me there...I"m dead money! ;D)
However, the number of seats available for direct buy-in is already limited to a great extent.
If the Regionals had been full, there were, I think 100 (50%) seats going...that"s further reduced by online sats (another 30+ or so [15%]) leaving about 60/70 (35% let"s say) available.
2/3 could have got there on "talent". Of course, that didn"t happen in Leg 1 but I think that will be the norm for the later stages of Season 2.
That seems a reasonable ratio to me.
The real answer...bigger cardrooms...DTD can hold 450+ and the market is, IMHO, there to keep it (and others) in business. Of course, (again IMHO) the casino groups don"t want bigger cardrooms as it would appear they believe that it takes trade away from their core business, table games.
-
I"m not advocating getting rid of direct buy-ins. Just that if you"ve played in a National event you are not permitted to buy-in into the next one, but you can qualify.
-
I think a lot of the inconsistency with regard to who is successful in the clickfest is simply down to the payment processors site being overwhelmed at 21:00.
Perhaps phasing the the buy-ins would be the answer. How about...
21:00-21:04 Open the buy-in link to all members whose christian name begins with A...
21:05-21:09 Open the buy-in link to all members whose christian name begins with B...
21:10-21:14 Open the buy-in link to all members whose christian name begins with C...
21:15-21:19 Open the buy-in link to all members whose christian name begins with D...
etc...
etc...
What do you think?
I"m 100% behind this proposal!
Regards
ALAN ;)
-
I"m not advocating getting rid of direct buy-ins. Just that if you"ve played in a National event you are not permitted to buy-in into the next one, but you can qualify.
Hardy fair is someone qualifies for one that they can"t play in the next. Also what about the points leaderboard?
-
I"m not advocating getting rid of direct buy-ins. Just that if you"ve played in a National event you are not permitted to buy-in into the next one, but you can qualify.
Hardy fair is someone qualifies for one that they can"t play in the next. Also what about the points leaderboard?
I"d have thought you"d be in favour of my suggestion aDniel? :)
-
I"ve sent my applicaiton to deed poll.
Changing my name to 0000001AAAAAAAAAAAADaniel...
-
Can"t see a solution around the problem of who wants to enter being able to. Unfortunately its never easy to please everyone.
I bubbled in London and had a problem with my computer so wasn"t able to connect immediately and missed out on the click fest. As advised I immediately sent my email off to Des requesting that I be put be the alternates list. So I am patiently waiting knowing quite a few people will have personal reasons why they can"t go or may just not want to.
None of the players in the ranking list get preferential treatment, nor those of us with our pictures on the Apat Home page banner. We are all treated the same and we will all have to be patient and see what happens.
So a note to those of you that have seats and can"t attend please let Des know at the earliest opportunity. He can then put those of us waiting out of our misery.... ;)
Linda
-
Would somebody please teach me how to use the forum quote function!
lol
-
Allowing alternates would ease the pain! ::)
8)
Certainly would...are you saying this isn"t going to happen ,now the law is allowing this?
Basically I think there needs to be more focus on qualifing through the regionals,and online....with any left overs going on a clickfest.
With the regionals....put up the buy in..... and make more seats (ie 1 in 5). Make sure there are dealers and a buffet......and therefore encourage more to attend to qualify/make money/ and most importantly enjoy the day!!
The message should be if you want a seat in the nationals,you have to play poker first!
-
could we not just have 2 or 3 day 1"s and allow 600 to play?
-
could we not just have 2 or 3 day 1"s and allow 600 to play?
Three day 1s? I think you need to think that one through a little more carefully! ;)
-
In my opinion it hard to call it the "English Championship" unless a structure exists that allows everyone to qualify - and we have the regionals/onliners to do just that. However I"d like APAT to eliminate all the £75 direct buy-in lottery and increase the number of qualifying places in the regionals. I wouldt give the £75 cash or ticket option. Players at the regionals should be members of APAT not just locals who happend to turn up for a game and have no interest in APAT or the championships.
-
In my opinion it hard to call it the "English Championship" unless a structure exists that allows everyone to qualify - and we have the regionals/onliners to do just that. However I"d like APAT to eliminate all the £75 direct buy-in lottery and increase the number of qualifying places in the regionals. I wouldt give the £75 cash or ticket option. Players at the regionals should be members of APAT not just locals who happend to turn up for a game and have no interest in APAT or the championships.
If you take sponsorship, as APAT has to to do to make this work (and give value) then there are conditions that inevitably come with that. One of those conditions, as I understand it, is that anyone that turns up and pays to play on the day at the regionals gets membership. Some of the fields at the first round of regionasls would hae been a bit grim without those players, worsening the value compared to travel costs for APAT members who travelled.
And on that point, if you add in more seats at the regionals then you reduce the value at the top end of the prize scale and you reduce the incentive to actually try to win one of them. Which also potentially reduces the standing and value of the regional championships.
At Luton there was a slight sense that reaching the final 7 was the main point (it was certainly an initial trigger point for me being satisfied with the day"s work and it was only once that was achieved that I started considering that I had a chance of winning it) and there was a sense among some that relative positions didn"t matter that much on the final table (the cash on top of the seat was the same for three of the positions and went up more from 3rd to 2nd than 2nd to 1st).
So you already had a flatter payment structure than would be the norm in a tournament paying 7 places and there was already a sense that winning wasn"t necessarily important. Any more dilution of the value for the final positions would worsen that in my opinion.
So, I don"t think there should be a change to the top 10% payment structure at the regionals. There is a championship associated to them, relative positions on the final table matter, and they deserve a structure that makes them worth winning from a financial return perspective (some people will have significant time and travel costs associated with playing a regional in some parts of the country) and thus helps maintains the integrity of the regional championships.
There won"t be much kudos attached to being regional champion (or even winning an event) if people stop caring once they"ve achieved their seat and decide that they"re happy to chuck their chips in, take their seat and whatever cash they get at that point, so they can head over to the ring games.
-
I think poeple love the idea of APAT which is shown in the membership growing and growing. But what happens if it grows say to 5,000, 10,000 or 15,000 which I think it could well do. I think the membership has out stripped expection in the first 12 months creating a monster for APAT, Season Two i think will also be above expection. I just hope members stay and follow Apat into glory ! lol
SHOW ME THE MONEY $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Maybe the regionals could grow to 200+ with Super Nationals ? I have not got the answers. I just wanted to start debate to bring up ideas for the future plus to test the waters on the memberships views of the future.
I am sure APAT will be doing their up most to make APAT bigger better for all in time.
Its great to see the debate :) ;) :D ;D :o 8) :"( ::)
-
could we not just have 2 or 3 day 1"s and allow 600 to play?
What about the people who couldn"t get the time off work to play any other time than the weekend?
-
In my opinion it hard to call it the "English Championship" unless a structure exists that allows everyone to qualify - and we have the regionals/onliners to do just that...
We also have the clickfest method - there is absolutely no practical reason why anybody couldn"t get a seat using this method.
... However I"d like APAT to eliminate all the £75 direct buy-in lottery and increase the number of qualifying places in the regionals...
It isn"t easy for me to get to the nearest regional casinos to me - it is highly likely that anytime I get deep in one I will be on the streets until the next morning waiting for the first train home, but I can at least make it.
What about the people who - absolutely can"t make it to the regional tournaments?
Would you suggest that they are just excluded from APAt National Championships because of this? And similarly, live and online can be very different - would you exclude those people who don"t like playing online from them - because that could be the practical effect of increasing the number of qualifiers through online satellites.
...I wouldt give the £75 cash or ticket option....
So you would effectively want to turn the Regional Championships into a series of satellites? As alluded to in an earlier post this would utterly destroy the credibility of the results as so many people would stop trying once their seat was secure.
What would you really prefer - a number of satellites, or a genuine Regional Championship?
I personally would wait to see the cumulative effect over the whole season before jumping to conclusions, but my intuition suggests to me that the other way would be more effective. If the Regional Championships did not provide a seat (other than the big prize at the end for the Champion), ie if they were not a satellite at all, this would reduce demand for the Regionals (which I think will come in very handy when they start filling up). And it would increase the supply of seats for the clickfest - making it less manic and give a larger margin for success for the number of people who are committed to entering the National Championships.
I would reiterate that this is my first impression, and at the end of the season I will be perfectly happy to concede that I was wrong if the evidence suggests otherwise. I don"t think that there is anything spectacularly wrong with how it is now, I would expect there to be a few tweaks to improve the format next season but that we will only be able to get a good idea of what they have to be when we get the full dataset of results for how Season 2 has panned out.
So my ultimate conclusion is: why don"t we wait and see?
(for a little bit at least)
-
I"ve sent my applicaiton to deed poll.
Changing my name to 0000001AAAAAAAAAAAADaniel...
Thought I"d just go for Aaron ;D
-
I"ve sent my applicaiton to deed poll.
Changing my name to 0000001AAAAAAAAAAAADaniel...
Thought I"d just go for Aaron ;D
I"ll go for Aaaaaron then :)
-
Allowing alternates would ease the pain! ::)
8)
Actively considering this, announcement about arrangements soon..including late entries (ie those on the player list who are not in the casino for 4pm)
-
I"ve sent my applicaiton to deed poll.
Changing my name to 0000001AAAAAAAAAAAADaniel...
Thought I"d just go for Aaron ;D
I"ll go for Aaaaaron then :)
Oi!!! i know my name would come good for something. now i dont want everyone haveing it ;D cheers, aaron
-
Re Ken"s Summary of Luton Regional.
I am one of the seemingly unpopular, "joined on the day" people.
Now I had heard of APAT, but never got around to joining until i ventured to Luton and the Regional was on, instead of the usual £10 rebuy, so when the guy explained what it entailed i thought great.
To cut a long story short, I was Chip leader at the start of the final table and Yes, once we were down to 7 I did take the attitude that I did not want to sit there for 3 more hours for an extra £40 or whatever it was, so decided to have a bit of fun and play ultra loose and ended up 6th I think, if that upset anyone, my apologies.
Had I understood there were medals for the regional, I would have played differently (when asked the cardroom manager knew nothing about medals - so I thought the person asking was mixing up the regional with the biggun).
Roll on Walsall - I look forward to having a great weekend there with you guys.
And I promise, no ultra loose play........ ;D
DW
td 7d - I"m with Daniel Negreanu on this hand!
-
Welcome to APAT.
The first regional events were not advertised widely, so it"s no surprise that you didn"t know too much about the event. This will change for leg two in November.
Enjoy the National in Walsall.
-
...Yes, once we were down to 7 I did take the attitude that I did not want to sit there for 3 more hours for an extra £40 or whatever it was, so decided to have a bit of fun and play ultra loose and ended up 6th I think, if that upset anyone, my apologies.
Nothing to apologise for. As long as you weren"t abusive and didn"t break any rules, no one has any right to make you play one way or another. You could open shove every hand - they"re your chips and you can play them as you deem fit.
I"ve played in tournaments when people don"t care about anything except winning it. So they"ll play for the win and not consider laddering up the prizes. Others are quite content to fold their way up the ladder to win a little bit more without risking it for the big prize. Neither is wrong (it might not be what you"d do, but they can do what they like).
If you"re in a regional, and are using it as a sat to the Nationals, once you have a seat you might want to shove every hand blind. No one can complain if you do - it"s within the rules and you"ve paid your money to enter.
See you in Walsall!
-
I won my seat at the Vic came 3rd great fun ;) see u in walsall
-
Mel runs good!!
;)
-
Nothing to apologise for. As long as you weren"t abusive and didn"t break any rules, no one has any right to make you play one way or another.
I agree also - no apology necessary. I wasn"t complaining or upset, merely outlining why I think, for the good of the the regional championships, that the prize structure of the regionals shouldn"t be flattened and lengthened.
-
Thanks Ken,
I thoroughly Enjoyed it, had fun with some good people on the final table (yourself included) and am counting the days til Walsall.
Good luck to you there, I wish everyone all the best and hope you all come 2nd! ;D
Daz
td 7d - I"m with Daniel Negreanu on this hand!