Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: spudgun007 on February 25, 2010, 14:44:54 PM
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Am I right in saying that because there is a professional game with 50 players running alongside the amateur event, means that the usual 150 runner field will be reduced by 50 APAT members ?
Will APAT have to change their name to APPT (amateur & professional poker tour?)
I would like to say, what made this particular site so appealing to me personally was how well the tour is run, by making tournament poker affordable, what worries me is do you think a 3rd of your field were looking to step up to the next level (professional event) if that's the case no worries.
But on the other hand if you are trying to attract the "bigger hitters" to the APAT site, I think that would definitely narrow considerably the chances of the folks that support the APAT tour making in to your live tournaments. I can envisage lots of regular APATers being disappointed; if the field is reduced to accommodate the professional event. APAT & the staff who do a great job had found a great niche in the poker market I just personally feel this change will be harder for the grass root players to qualify.
I know "clickfest" is first come first served but if there is 50 less seats available each event to accommodate the pro's wont this disappoint a lot of loyal APAT'ers ? (IMO)
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I"m going to have to re-read but I think it"s a 150 field for the Amateur comp (down from the usual 200).
I also have my issues with reducing the Amateur comp fields to run the Pro Series which, to be fair, could have been run on Sundays. If amateur players want to step up to the Pro Series, this should IMO free up more seats for those who haven"t been able to get in before. Unfortunately, this has not happened.
My 2c.
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Swansea is goin to be a squeeze to get 150 in but i think i could be done so i thought it would probably be 100 for the amateur but obviously other casino with bigger capacity should get 150 in
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I just personally feel this change will be harder for the grass root players to qualify.
if there is 50 less seats available each event to accommodate the pro's wont this disappoint a lot of loyal APAT'ers ?
I also have my issues with reducing the Amateur comp fields to run the Pro Series which, to be fair, could have been run on Sundays. If amateur players want to step up to the Pro Series, this should IMO free up more seats for those who haven"t been able to get in before. Unfortunately, this has not happened.
+1
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Im sure it has been mentioned before that it is only 100 seats for the welsh event.
I also agree with this....for some events it is hard enough as it is to get into them, especially as i work evenings like i have done all this week so i don"t always get the opportunity to qualify.
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i think 5 day events for season 5 could solve this problem ;D
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Found it..
100 Amateur seats are available in Swansea, in addition to 50 Pro League and 50 Specialist Series seats. The majority of the venues in season 4 will have 150 Amateur seats and DTD will have many more. With the Pro League sponsorship package at stake, I expect a number of existing tour members to step up and play that. That said, we can adjust the numbers easily within a week of the event, so if we only had 30 register for the Pro League, we would allocate a further 20 seats to the Amateur Championship event.
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Totally agree with everything said above, gettin a seat is the hard part, with a reduced numbers available it will be even worse, YES if anyone wants to try the next level go for it but it shouldn"t effect the vast majority of players who will struggle to get a seat ( shame really ) :"(
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I would be interested to know if these 50 seat "pro" events were an APAT initiative or something required by the sponsor?
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I just personally feel this change will be harder for the grass root players to qualify.
if there is 50 less seats available each event to accommodate the pro's wont this disappoint a lot of loyal APAT'ers ?
I also have my issues with reducing the Amateur comp fields to run the Pro Series which, to be fair, could have been run on Sundays. If amateur players want to step up to the Pro Series, this should IMO free up more seats for those who haven"t been able to get in before. Unfortunately, this has not happened.
+1
+1
Also, as this is now just 100 runners, how many people do you think will make it to Day 2? Will there even be a need for Day 2?
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Day 2 ??? now there"s a concept
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Day 2 ??? now there"s a concept
+1 ::)
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100 seats in Wales
29 seat won through the sats
10 reserved by betfair for their customers
& 2 reserved by APAT
leaves 59 seats up for grabs tonight
it is good to see APAT getting bigger & better In season 4 :-\
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I would be interested to know if these 50 seat "pro" events were an APAT initiative or something required by the sponsor?
APAT initiative, totally
Looking at the big picture, some of the regular APAT players will be looking to step up to the bigger buy in games which they play in regularly. Won"t mention names but I have quite a few in mind.
Also APAT wants to broaden its reach, and to do so (and via the association representing all players, the association being one of my tasks to invigorate for this season) requires accessing a variety of players...recreational, professional etc and therefore the Live event offer has to provide something for the Grass roots player and the Professional.
Of course we"re still restricted in a lot of places by venue capacities, but not in all places. It just so happens that the first event in Swansea is where this problem is most acute but as has been described elsewhere there are not a lot of Welsh venues to choose from with the commitment of Grosvenor Cardiff to Poker waning too that magnifies the problem
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I just personally feel this change will be harder for the grass root players to qualify.
if there is 50 less seats available each event to accommodate the pro's wont this disappoint a lot of loyal APAT'ers ?
I also have my issues with reducing the Amateur comp fields to run the Pro Series which, to be fair, could have been run on Sundays. If amateur players want to step up to the Pro Series, this should IMO free up more seats for those who haven"t been able to get in before. Unfortunately, this has not happened.
+1
+1
Also, as this is now just 100 runners, how many people do you think will make it to Day 2? Will there even be a need for Day 2?
Yes there will still be a Day 2. Couple of tables coming back
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Furthermore just re-checking the calculations
Most, the vast majority, of the Amateur fields will still be 150 runners
If the Pro series does not hit 50 runners when the seats go on sale, the extra seats will go towards increasing capacity of the Amateur event with sufficient notice to release those extra seats. I must say that with the Sponsorship package on offer with the Pro series, I wouldn"t expect that to be the case.
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100 seats in Wales
10 reserved by betfair for their customers
Say what now!!!!???
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If the pro event does not sell out within 2 weeks of the event, we will move those seats into the amateur event.
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100 seats in Wales
29 seat won through the sats
10 reserved by betfair for their customers
& 2 reserved by APAT
leaves 59 seats up for grabs tonight
it is good to see APAT getting bigger & better In season 4 :-\
think this is too harsh, to be frank
Enormous amounts of added value across both major APAT series, a lot of new venues, more overseas events...all of these represent APAT making substantial progress in Season 4 in its Live Events with of course a number of opportunities to get in before the whim of the Tournament lobby buy-in!
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100 seats in Wales
10 reserved by betfair for their customers
Say what now!!!!???
As part of the sponsorship deal 10 seats are given to betfair and they have chosen to award them via a Draw for customers reactivating accounts (Some of you will have seen the recent email). Betfair have chosen to do this for Swansea, whether they will do this for subsequent events not sure
Interestingly this option was also built into the Blue Square deal last year, but they never chose to use it
With sponsorship comes an occasional need to pay the piper, and for APAT it guarantees (via these emails to all Betfair customers) a lot of profile and coverage. Big Picture
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Richard, you"re right, it"s a little harsh but I"m sure that you can appreciate our disappointment that the 1st event of Season 4 seems to be a step backward.
Half the size of a usual APAT event, and then 10% of the seats we don"t even have a chance at.
Add to this that the Pro series, by being held the same day instead of Sunday has reduced the Amateur series by 50 seats per comp. Oh, you can add more seats at DTD but for the usual events a 25% cut stings.
If, perhaps all of these issues had been announced at the start we could have got the whinges out of the way instead of being drip-fed these issues one by one.
EDIT...I recognize that the Announcement was long anyway and adding more information would have overwhelmed the maint point..but still.
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WHO"s FRANK LOL ??? ???
Only grip is most apat members want to play in the $75.00 tourney , at most events this sells out within minutes, by reducing the number of seats there is less chance to play at the tourneys and if you don"t get a seat and if the member continues not to get into a tourney they will have to think about continuing with apat , we should be looking at increasing the number of seats for the tourneys NOT REDUCING them !!!! my 2c :-[
I know its hard but there must be someway we can accomodate more players even if it means an extra day ?????
BY the way DES and team are doing a great job just my little grip
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If, perhaps all of these issues had been announced at the start we could have got the whinges out of the way instead of being drip-fed these issues one by one.
I understand the general comments but I can assure you there was no attempt to hold anything back/drip feed issues out
An awful lot of information had to be packaged into a press release at outset. Inevitably that doesn"t get into the nitty-gritty of everything all at once.
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If, perhaps all of these issues had been announced at the start we could have got the whinges out of the way instead of being drip-fed these issues one by one.
I understand the general comments but I can assure you there was no attempt to hold anything back/drip feed issues out
An awful lot of information had to be packaged into a press release at outset. Inevitably that doesn"t get into the nitty-gritty of everything all at once.
Yeah, I was in the middle of an edit to acknowledge the issues....just felt like "Death of 1000 cuts" for Swansea.
Looks like, barring sheer luck, I won"t make Swansea unless I can buy a seat in the Exchange.
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WHO"s FRANK LOL ??? ???
Only grip is most apat members want to play in the $75.00 tourney , at most events this sells out within minutes, by reducing the number of seats there is less chance to play at the tourneys and if you don"t get a seat and if the member continues not to get into a tourney they will have to think about continuing with apat , we should be looking at increasing the number of seats for the tourneys NOT REDUCING them !!!! my 2c :-[
I know its hard but there must be someway we can accomodate more players even if it means an extra day ?????
BY the way DES and team are doing a great job just my little grip
No problem. All feedback is appreciated and listened to
Extra day. Yes, we"d love to. Remember though its run by volunteers (mostly, that"s changing slightly) where time off is a problem and adding an extra day adds substantial venue costs which reduces the economics to potential sponsors who fund these costs
I repeat, the acute problem of seat reduction in the Amateur at Swansea won"t be felt as bad at subsequent events.
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Half the size of a usual APAT event, and then 10% of the seats we don"t even have a chance at.
you do have a chance at. I got an email from Betfair saying that if you played their Hot tournaments. For every hot tournament you played, you would get 1 ticket into a prize draw for a free seat..
Emailed me earlier today
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Half the size of a usual APAT event, and then 10% of the seats we don"t even have a chance at.
you do have a chance at. I got an email from Betfair saying that if you played their Hot tournaments. For every hot tournament you played, you would get 1 ticket into a prize draw for a free seat..
Emailed me earlier today
I"ll have to check my spam trap...I got now"t.
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Did we desperately need to have a Welsh event this year? If the only venues available in Wales would reduce capacity significantly, could we not have just missed it out for season 4? No offense Wales, but it"s not the UK-APAT. The priority should be squeezing as many players into games throughout the year as possible rather than making sure there"s a game in each country no? Walsall is a big venue for example and not on the calendar this season and it"s not that far from Wales, I think you can sort of still smell Wales from there.
Or alternatively, given the reduced capacity, was making both the amateur and pro events one day games considered? 150 runners each. Or 75-100 for the pro event and bumping the £25 game up to 75? DTD run one day games with 250+ runners with a decent structure so it is possible. This way you get 300 APATers involved rather than 150 we have now.
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Well Rich, its National Championships. Wales has had three national events, we"d like to keep that going. Even if they are Welsh.
Personally, to use your other example, I wasn"t that keen to return to Walsall after the venue"s performance last year. Don"t particularly want to reward what I considered to be a shoddy effort. Same applied to another venue from last year
Someone, Paullie I think, mentioned playing the Pro event on the Sunday. The reason is that both the final table of the Pro event and the Amatuer event are going to be live streamed on APAT.TV and site with commentary. Having a one day Pro event finish on a Saturday means most of the TV coverage then will be Pro, and on Sunday the climax of the Amateur. Having both conclude on the Sunday would mean we wouldn"t be able to create a profile for both events. Big picture stuiff again I suppose
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Well Rich, its National Championships. Wales has had three national events, we"d like to keep that going. Even if they are Welsh.
Personally, to use your other example, I wasn"t that keen to return to Walsall after the venue"s performance last year. Don"t particularly want to reward what I considered to be a shoddy effort. Same applied to another venue from last year
Someone, Paullie I think, mentioned playing the Pro event on the Sunday. The reason is that both the final table of the Pro event and the Amatuer event are going to be live streamed on APAT.TV and site with commentary. Having a one day Pro event finish on a Saturday means most of the TV coverage then will be Pro, and on Sunday the climax of the Amateur. Having both conclude on the Sunday would mean we wouldn"t be able to create a profile for both events. Big picture stuiff again I suppose
But if the Amateur event was a one day event, it would conclude on Saturday not Sunday. The two final tables would still be on different days, just the other way round if that makes sense.
Irrelevant now anyway, just wondered if making both events Single day freeze-outs was considered for Wales.
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The honest answer is that it wasn"t considered. Amateur national event = 2 day for 3 seasons so far, not sure we ever got out of that mindset!
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Someone, Paullie I think, mentioned playing the Pro event on the Sunday. The reason is that both the final table of the Pro event and the Amatuer event are going to be live streamed on APAT.TV and site with commentary. Having a one day Pro event finish on a Saturday means most of the TV coverage then will be Pro, and on Sunday the climax of the Amateur. Having both conclude on the Sunday would mean we wouldn"t be able to create a profile for both events. Big picture stuiff again I suppose
Thanks Richard..it is a lot clearer now and explains a lot...drip feeding us again...heh! :)
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Welsh National in Bristol next year?
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any1 know what chance of birmingham winning the FA CUP woop woop
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There are less seats available per venue but with the increased number of events are there more £75 seats this season in total than last?
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As i see it, we are trying to cram too much into the Saturday. Is it not possible for the Professional event to be on the Sunday? This would mean that if you had a cardroom with a max capacity of 150, then this could all be used for the Amateur Day 1. Say, 40 came back for Day 2, then with the Professional Event (50 people), and the side event (also 50 people), then you have a full cardroom for the Sunday as well.
As it is, you will have a very small number coming back for the Amateur Day 2, and just the side event on the Sunday. This means the cardroom is only 1/2 full.
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As i see it, we are trying to cram too much into the Saturday. Is it not possible for the Professional event to be on the Sunday? This would mean that if you had a cardroom with a max capacity of 150, then this could all be used for the Amateur Day 1. Say, 40 came back for Day 2, then with the Professional Event (50 people), and the side event (also 50 people), then you have a full cardroom for the Sunday as well.
As it is, you will have a very small number coming back for the Amateur Day 2, and just the side event on the Sunday. This means the cardroom is only 1/2 full.
Please see my point above about live streaming/television coverage for both final tables
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There are less seats available per venue but with the increased number of events are there more £75 seats this season in total than last?
If you include the DTD £50s and £100 event, yes
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Personally, to use your other example, I wasn"t that keen to return to Walsall after the venue"s performance last year. Don"t particularly want to reward what I considered to be a shoddy effort. Same applied to another venue from last year
Would be interested to know what you thought was shoddy about Walsall last year Rich? I played both days including FT and didn"t hear anybody complaining about anything except the behaviour of a couple of APAT members. What on earth did the casino get wrong to be considered so shoddy as not to go back?
(MintTrav stay out of this OK ;))
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Agree with Darren"s point. I also think the Pro event should be moved to the Sundays.
Walsall......shoddy ??
At least they know how to run a tourney.....I aint gonna mention Manchester........oops........there I go again !!
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One thing I saw mentioned in a seperate thread, about people playing in both the amateur and pro event, "not allowed"... I see that there is at least 1 name in both tournament lists... If that person does not know, I think he/she should be told and asked to remove themselves from one of the 2 tournaments. Even if he/she does know, should be asked to remove themselves... If that person does not want to play in the Amateur, let someone have the seat now rather than in 3 weeks...
One thought that came to mind on a different subject. I bought in today for Swansea, but, I have a chance of getting a free seat from one of the 10 available by the draw.. Obviously I know I can flog the seat on the seat exchange should I win a seat in the draw, but, will their software get all messed up seeing that I am already in there.
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Assuming the Pro event does sell out, can we estimate what sort of time it would be expected to finish with 2pm start, 50 runners, 40 minutes clock 10,000 chips?
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Assuming the Pro event does sell out, can we estimate what sort of time it would be expected to finish with 2pm start, 50 runners, 40 minutes clock 10,000 chips?
12 playing hours
So with a dinner break, shoter breaks etc...4am
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Betfair Holding Tank for the PRO event states, 45 seats available!
Does this mean that Betfair have taken 5 seats for distribution as in the amateur event? :o
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Betfair Holding Tank for the PRO event states, 45 seats available!
Does this mean that Betfair have taken 5 seats for distribution as in the amateur event? :o
It"s actually 10 taken now and no, these were either satellited or bought direct on Betfair.
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Will this event go ahead even if only ten runners are registered after two weeks are up? And would the winner still get the GUKPT seat?
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Personally, to use your other example, I wasn"t that keen to return to Walsall after the venue"s performance last year. Don"t particularly want to reward what I considered to be a shoddy effort. Same applied to another venue from last year
Would be interested to know what you thought was shoddy about Walsall last year Rich? I played both days including FT and didn"t hear anybody complaining about anything except the behaviour of a couple of APAT members. What on earth did the casino get wrong to be considered so shoddy as not to go back?
(MintTrav stay out of this OK ;))
2 points I noted Andy. The late start, which was partly due to some players not appearing on the players list (including me). I was squeezed had to play 11 handed as did another few tables I think.
Secondly the extended break before the FT was due IMO to poor organization on the casinos part.
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I thought it was run ok in walsall ( i went out too early to know any difference btw) but i did hear a few people moaning at playing 11 handed, which must of been quite strange and very cramped at the table.
Final table break only affects a few people of course, and it can actually be an advantadge if you have a long break before a Final Table imo.
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Personally, to use your other example, I wasn"t that keen to return to Walsall after the venue"s performance last year. Don"t particularly want to reward what I considered to be a shoddy effort. Same applied to another venue from last year
Would be interested to know what you thought was shoddy about Walsall last year Rich? I played both days including FT and didn"t hear anybody complaining about anything except the behaviour of a couple of APAT members. What on earth did the casino get wrong to be considered so shoddy as not to go back?
(MintTrav stay out of this OK ;))
2 points I noted Andy. The late start, which was partly due to some players not appearing on the players list (including me). I was squeezed had to play 11 handed as did another few tables I think.
Secondly the extended break before the FT was due IMO to poor organization on the casinos part.
The dealers also weren"t all fully (or much at all) trained properly
There might have been other things but can"t remember what they were
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Will this event go ahead even if only ten runners are registered after two weeks are up? And would the winner still get the GUKPT seat?
I think it"s a bit early to be thinking in those terms just yet.
I"m sure that Betfair and APAT will have a minimum number in mind at which the overlay would seem disproportionate to the prize pool but that"s for them to hash out.
Certainly it hasn"t been the blinding success (so far) that APAT were obviously hoping for but a slow burn is better than no burn.
Another point to consider is that, knowing two of the players personally, would they get priority in the newly opened seats in the Amateur event if the Pro event were to be cancelled?
I would hope so as that would seem to be the most equitable outcome.
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Walsall.
Pre-competition (inputting player list) was a fiasco and caused APAT enormous difficulties. Flexibility in dealing with the issue was non-existent
Dealing with the behaviour issues on the first night in the way we advised was disappointing/didn"t happen
Staffing levels and dealing standards below the levels we"d expect
Management attitude to us poor
Break before final table excessive and attitude in dealing with it poor
It wasn"t the only venue that under-performed in S3, and those also don"t appear on the S4 schedule
Professional Event. Too early to tell. Going to market it in a few different ways in a few different places next week. Will make a decision on whether to release (any) unsold seats into the amateur event with a fortnight to go
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Thanks Rich. Most of this didn"t get through to me, although the 2hr break before FT was OTT. Credit to you that you must have managed these issues behind the scenes leaving us to get on with it.
Have to say though that the GUKPT has run very well and totally on time. Very good dealers - don"t know if they"re shipped in but a lot had midlands accents. No misdeals in 10 hours of poker is pretty good.
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Thanks Rich. Most of this didn"t get through to me, although the 2hr break before FT was OTT. Credit to you that you must have managed these issues behind the scenes leaving us to get on with it.
Have to say though that the GUKPT has run very well and totally on time. Very good dealers - don"t know if they"re shipped in but a lot had midlands accents. No misdeals in 10 hours of poker is pretty good.
blatant brag post IMO ;)
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Have to say though that the GUKPT has run very well and totally on time. Very good dealers - don"t know if they"re shipped in but a lot had midlands accents. No misdeals in 10 hours of poker is pretty good.
Dunno if its changed recently but when I used to work for BSQ as an updater on the tour, most of the dealers were shipped in, but iirc Zak Miller and Jim Field worked pretty much all of them.